Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 5 of 22 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 323
  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    10,400
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    I thought Wins were not a valid means to measure a pitcher's value and performance, correct?
    1. I never said that.

    2. Wins are part of the equation of evaluating any pitcher. Good pitchers can still win without their best stuff. They are not the only measurement but wins mean something.

    3. His XFIP divided by his WAR is only so/so.

    The point is that for $45 million, the team may not be all that much better than if we spent half that amount on another pitcher or two.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    10,400
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Branch Rickey's reasoning was arrogant and flawed. Arrogant because he knew Ralph Kiner had no bargaining leverage and that he could trade him for whatever he could get. Flawed because the team's poor play was more indicative of Kiner's 24 teammates than Kiner.

    But you knew that.

    The mistake many people make when citing Dickey' age is the assumption that he's no different from any other major league veteran pitcher of a similar age. But those guys have logged about a decade and a half of major league pitching stress. Dickey on the other hand has pitched relatively few major league innings for someone his age. Then of course there's the knuckleball.

    I understand not wanting to pay $45 million when the rest of the team has so many holes. But in an ideal situation, you load up on pitching as you fill the other holes. That's how championship teams are built.

    It will be a shame two years from now when this team is ready to turn the corner that Dickey won't be around to help put them over the top. I concede I'll feel differently if they trade Dickey to bring in players who help them turn the corner.

    But i remain skeptical.
    Rickey's comment may have been arrogant; not necessarily flawed. And it applies to Dickey. If he would have been a 20 game winner leading us to the promised land (he did come down from the mountain) he would have more leverage.

    As it is, he led us to 4th place. Not much leverage there. If we made the playoffs last year or were had a real shot in 2013, he'd have more leverage. Right now, his only leverage is that he is a fan favorite and a nice story. Like Kranepool only with talent.

    Fans got over Jose, they will get over Dickey.

    3/$36 is a max for the Dickster.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    East of the Sun, West of the Moon
    Posts
    15,274
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    I thought Wins were not a valid means to measure a pitcher's value and performance, correct?
    Quote Originally Posted by jomota48 View Post
    1. I never said that..
    Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by jomota48 View Post
    Dickey wants $45 million for three years. There is a good chance, a real good chance, that he won't even win 45 games during that time. Seems a bit expensive to me.
    "The 90 wins is about challenge. It's about changing the conversation. It's about framing questions for ourselves as to how we get there. So I stand by the notion that we need to get better, and in doing so we need to set concrete goals for ourselves so that we have sort of specific conversations among ourselves about how we're going to get there." -- Mr. Alderson

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    10,400
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    Well...
    The point is that it is excessive to give a guy that much $$$$ when there is a good chance that you will be paying him over a $1 million a win.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Queens, NY
    Posts
    50,870
    vCash
    1500
    You aren't paying him for wins, you are paying him to make nearly 100 starts in the 3 year deal.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Chestnut Hill, MA
    Posts
    23,508
    vCash
    1500
    Id give it to him but the Wilpon's wont. 3 years 40 mil RA?


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CHj0dMkK6A

    New Video. Isles season highlights 2011-12!

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,855
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    If the pitcher we saw in 2012 is Niese moving forward, and Dickey regresses to pre-2012 levels, then Niese is the more valuable player for sure.
    I thought even 2011 Dickey was still about as good as 2012 Niese.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    10,400
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    You aren't paying him for wins, you are paying him to make nearly 100 starts in the 3 year deal.
    I'm paying him to bean effective starter. Wins is the simplest measuring stick. If all I'm getting is 100 starts for $45 million…it's a bad deal. If he goes 36-27 in those 3 years…we overpaid.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Brooklyn, New York
    Posts
    6,829
    vCash
    1500
    By appearances, 32 starts is a solid year for a starting pitcher. 100 starts in 3 years is about the most you'll get. Your paying Dickey to pitch. Starting pitchers cannot score runs while pitching. Even if Dickey allows 0 runs in 230 IP, he may not even have one win to show for it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    10,400
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by kmo429 View Post
    Id give it to him but the Wilpon's wont. 3 years 40 mil RA?
    You're very generous with other people's $$$$.

    Do you realize the risk involved here? The Wilnotpons give a 37 year old $45 million and he hurts himself in year 1. How did that deal work out. Dickey has zero risk.

    Just curious…how many 37 year olds sign $45 million three year deals????

    And don't give me that baloney that a knuckleballer is different.

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Brooklyn, New York
    Posts
    6,829
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by jomota48 View Post
    You're very generous with other people's $$$$.

    Do you realize the risk involved here? The Wilnotpons give a 37 year old $45 million and he hurts himself in year 1. How did that deal work out. Dickey has zero risk.

    Just curious…how many 37 year olds sign $45 million three year deals????

    And don't give me that baloney that a knuckleballer is different.
    Why do you feel that that is "baloney"? Pitching takes its toll on your body through repetition. It's not that once you turn 39 your arms fall off. If you are in top physical health, which Dickey seems to be, and you haven't pitched all that much in your career as far as innings, which Dickey has not, then you can be effective as an older player.

    Also, what makes Dickey more of an injury risk than signing a Zack Greinke? I'm sure you'd like Grienke on your team? What about Verlander? Is it impossible for those guys to be injured while pitching? Of course it is.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    2,672
    vCash
    1500
    @DPLennon: #Mets also working on a trade for OF that could be pulled off w/o Dickey being involved
    Interesting.. Wonder who it could be
    New Orleans Saints
    LA Kings
    Cleveland Cavs
    NY Mets
    Duke Blue Devils


    THE WORLD IS YOURS CHICO! KENNY VACCARO BABY!

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    East of the Sun, West of the Moon
    Posts
    15,274
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by jomota48 View Post
    And don't give me that baloney that a knuckleballer is different.
    Historically, knuckleballers who are successful at the MLB level have proven to be different.

    http://www.canalidesigns.com/files/c...ney%281%29.jpg
    "The 90 wins is about challenge. It's about changing the conversation. It's about framing questions for ourselves as to how we get there. So I stand by the notion that we need to get better, and in doing so we need to set concrete goals for ourselves so that we have sort of specific conversations among ourselves about how we're going to get there." -- Mr. Alderson

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    The Boogie Down
    Posts
    77,782
    vCash
    1500

    Dickey seeking 3-yrs, $45M, agent wouldn’t be surprised if he’s traded

    Dickey wants 2 years, 30 million. Mets offering 2 years 20 million.

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    27,303
    vCash
    1500
    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8714595
    Dickey with Buster Olney.


    “Ninety percent I’ll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I’ll probably waste.”
    - Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

Page 5 of 22 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •