PSD Heisman ballot

[BullsFan_1]

I would argue that Te'o isn't even the best player in the Notre Dame front seven.

[Catfish1314]

is there a defender that has meant more to his team? no

I'm not trying to hate on Te'o because he is an outstanding player. But that's definitely debatable.

irrelevant...the "top 5" team that he beat is still playing for the title...next

Wait what?

A&M has 2 losses and wasn't even the best team in their own conference...

They lost to two top ten teams and they play in by far the best conference in the country. I don't say that to sound like some SEC elitist, but this year the SEC really has separated itself from every other conference. It hasn't helped that the B1G and ACC are way down.

I give Notre Dame a good shot to beat Alabama but does anyone seriously think they're 12-0 running through the same slate Manziel and A&M went through? That's a silly thing to punish Manziel for.

[homestarunner93]

I would argue that Te'o isn't even the best player in the Notre Dame front seven.

Agreed

[Jerry34]

I'm not trying to hate on Te'o because he is an outstanding player. But that's definitely debatable.



Wait what?



They lost to two top ten teams and they play in by far the best conference in the country. I don't say that to sound like some SEC elitist, but this year the SEC really has separated itself from every other conference. It hasn't helped that the B1G and ACC are way down.

I give Notre Dame a good shot to beat Alabama but does anyone seriously think they're 12-0 running through the same slate Manziel and A&M went through? That's a silly thing to punish Manziel for.

But Manziel played bad in those two loses. It's almost weird to me that he's getting a pass on those loses based on his great game against Alabama. Against Florida he only passed for 173 Yds. Against LSU he had 3 picks and no TD's.

The SEC is the best conference but A&M didn't have to play South Carolina or Georgia. So they had one of the toughest schedules in the nation but it wasn't way tougher than ND's. They played 3 top 10 teams and lost to 2 of them. Manziel played great in one of those games and mediocre/bad in the other 2.

[Wingman]

But Manziel played bad in those two loses. It's almost weird to me that he's getting a pass on those loses based on his great game against Alabama. Against Florida he only passed for 173 Yds. Against LSU he had 3 picks and no TD's.

The SEC is the best conference but A&M didn't have to play South Carolina or Georgia. So they had one of the toughest schedules in the nation but it wasn't way tougher than ND's. They played 3 top 10 teams and lost to 2 of them. Manziel played great in one of those games and mediocre/bad in the other 2.

He seems like you made the argument for Manziel to win the Heisman. The 2 games he played bad in, his team lost, so to me that makes him the most valuable player on his team. Which is probably given some consideration.

Manziel - take him off the team and A&M is probably a 5 loss team. Would have lost to Bama, Mississippi, and Lousiana Tech (Manziel 395 yds passing, 181 yds rushing - total team offense 678 yds).

Te'o - take him off the team and it is possible ND is still undefeated.

Klein - take him off the team and Kansas State maybe has 2 losses.

Personally, I think it comes down to Manziel and Klein. Klein may have lost the Heisman with the Baylor loss and Manziel may have won with the Bama win. Manziel became the flavor of the day with the Bama win. It put him in the spotlight and the media has let up. The real question, is he the best player? Argumentative, at the very least. Does the best player always win the Heisman? No.

[ManRam]

He seems like you made the argument for Manziel to win the Heisman. The 2 games he played bad in, his team lost, so to me that makes him the most valuable player on his team. Which is probably given some consideration.

Manziel - take him off the team and A&M is probably a 5 loss team. Would have lost to Bama, Mississippi, and Lousiana Tech (Manziel 395 yds passing, 181 yds rushing - total team offense 678 yds).

Te'o - take him off the team and it is possible ND is still undefeated.

Klein - take him off the team and Kansas State maybe has 2 losses.

Personally, I think it comes down to Manziel and Klein. Klein may have lost the Heisman with the Baylor loss and Manziel may have won with the Bama win. Manziel became the flavor of the day with the Bama win. It put him in the spotlight and the media has let up. The real question, is he the best player? Argumentative, at the very least. Does the best player always win the Heisman? No.

I'm not sure I agree with the first part, although I see your point. His team did lose two games in part because he struggled, which means he's valuable...but he did cost his teams win, which is bad.

But you're right. If Te'o has a bad game his team isn't gonna suffer much. Te'o isn't any more valuable to his team than a ton of players.

[homestarunner93]

He seems like you made the argument for Manziel to win the Heisman. The 2 games he played bad in, his team lost, so to me that makes him the most valuable player on his team. Which is probably given some consideration.

Manziel - take him off the team and A&M is probably a 5 loss team. Would have lost to Bama, Mississippi, and Lousiana Tech (Manziel 395 yds passing, 181 yds rushing - total team offense 678 yds).

Te'o - take him off the team and it is possible ND is still undefeated.

Klein - take him off the team and Kansas State maybe has 2 losses.

Personally, I think it comes down to Manziel and Klein. Klein may have lost the Heisman with the Baylor loss and Manziel may have won with the Bama win. Manziel became the flavor of the day with the Bama win. It put him in the spotlight and the media has let up. The real question, is he the best player? Argumentative, at the very least. Does the best player always win the Heisman? No.

You're vastly underrating Klein there.

[Mudvayne91]

He seems like you made the argument for Manziel to win the Heisman. The 2 games he played bad in, his team lost, so to me that makes him the most valuable player on his team. Which is probably given some consideration.

Manziel - take him off the team and A&M is probably a 5 loss team. Would have lost to Bama, Mississippi, and Lousiana Tech (Manziel 395 yds passing, 181 yds rushing - total team offense 678 yds).

Te'o - take him off the team and it is possible ND is still undefeated.

Klein - take him off the team and Kansas State maybe has 2 losses.

Personally, I think it comes down to Manziel and Klein. Klein may have lost the Heisman with the Baylor loss and Manziel may have won with the Bama win. Manziel became the flavor of the day with the Bama win. It put him in the spotlight and the media has let up. The real question, is he the best player? Argumentative, at the very least. Does the best player always win the Heisman? No.

No chance. I recall numerous situations in very close games where he made gigantic plays whether it was stopping a RB short in his tracks on 3rd/4th down or intercepting the balls in key situations.

[BradyIsTheMan12]

I would argue that Te'o isn't even the best player in the Notre Dame front seven.

Agreed. Stephon Tuitt is a better player, and much more of a matchup problem.

[Jerry34]

He seems like you made the argument for Manziel to win the Heisman. The 2 games he played bad in, his team lost, so to me that makes him the most valuable player on his team. Which is probably given some consideration.

Manziel - take him off the team and A&M is probably a 5 loss team. Would have lost to Bama, Mississippi, and Lousiana Tech (Manziel 395 yds passing, 181 yds rushing - total team offense 678 yds).

Te'o - take him off the team and it is possible ND is still undefeated.

Klein - take him off the team and Kansas State maybe has 2 losses.

Personally, I think it comes down to Manziel and Klein. Klein may have lost the Heisman with the Baylor loss and Manziel may have won with the Bama win. Manziel became the flavor of the day with the Bama win. It put him in the spotlight and the media has let up. The real question, is he the best player? Argumentative, at the very least. Does the best player always win the Heisman? No.

Your first part barely makes sense. There are all sorts of players in the country who have bad games and cost their teams games. If Manziel would have blown the game against Bama would that make him the run away favorite for the Heisman?

I don't care what Manziel did against Lousiana Tech. I'm watching him play against LSU right now. He looks bad, he threw a pick on a play that was called back for defense offsides, then threw another pick on the next play.

Notre Dame would not be undefeated without Teo. That might have 3 or 4 loses easily.

KSU could be terrible without Klein. Look how they did against Baylor when he played bad. Use that same logic.

[Jerry34]

Agreed. Stephon Tuitt is a better player, and much more of a matchup problem.

Tuitt might have more talent and end up being a bigger force than Teo. But he's still pretty raw as a sophmore.

[homestarunner93]

Tuitt might have more talent and end up being a bigger force than Teo. But he's still pretty raw as a sophmore.

If you told me I could either have Tuitt or Te'o to build around defensively for three or four years, I would take Tuitt without hesitation.

[Jerry34]

If you told me I could either have Tuitt or Te'o to build around defensively for three or four years, I would take Tuitt without hesitation.

Well yeah. There are a lot more 6'1 250 lb linebackers in the world than 6'6 300 lb, 19 year old defensive ends.

[Ctrain07]

Yeah. Te'o isn't even the best LB in the country, let alone the best defender...

Who do you think is better than Te'o?

[Catfish1314]

Who do you think is better than Te'o?

I know you didn't ask me, but for reference:

Player A (12 games, 12-0, 1-0 vs. top ten):
103 tackles (52 solo)
5.5 tackles for loss
0 forced fumbles
1.5 sacks
7 interceptions

Player B (11 games, 9-2, 1-2 vs. top ten):
77 tackles (47 solo)
22.5 tackles for loss
7 forced fumbles
12.5 sacks
1 interception

Player B also beat a top five team essentially by himself. So who is better?