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  1. #61
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    Doesn't matter who's throwing the ball if nobody can catch it! I was at the game yesterday and I saw 6 dropped passes,I was ecstatic when Allen benched Moore because there's nothing worse than dropping a catchable pass that can just take the wind out of your sails.It wasn't just Moore but Reece,DHB(no surprise) and Myers,I say start Crinor and Streater and let them get game familiar with Palmer. I'd rather see the rookie recievers than Pryor.

  2. #62
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    My case was we aren't making a deep run next year anyway regardless of a great offseason, we can get rid of guys but will still have cap trouble this year. We can add a few decent FA and have a good draft but 2014 is where we would have a good amount of money. I just personally feel if we can somehow net a 2nd and glennon is there you take him. This way we can throw him with the dogs. With a good draft whose to say how good our record would be? I mean at at end of the day neither him or Palmer will get us to the Super Bowl next year. Then comes 2014 were we can actually have fun because we have a 1st and 2nd and a good amount of cap room. This is where we can really add to he team. This is the year were I can see the raiders actually sneaking in the playoffs even with a young Qb. Now the third year 2015 this is where I can see us taking a legitimate step as a big time contender. Our Qb will be in year 3 with a very good team. At this point if we had Palmer he would be average at best. What's our option now? Get a Qb and wait another 2-3 years until he's really ready to take a next step? I just think if you're going to rebuild, rebuild the right way. None of us see Super Bowl within these two years right ? So why not jus save 13 million and continue to build the team. It's not fair to us or Palmer: I admit there is some resentment with me because we got him in a horrible trade, but my expectations where high last year. Yes he came off the coach but 4-6 didn't get it done. I wanted him to succeed and still do, but im not comfortable at all with him in late game situations. I'm just still at awe at the trade. A 1st and a 2nd


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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by raiderposting View Post
    My case was we aren't making a deep run next year anyway regardless of a great offseason, we can get rid of guys but will still have cap trouble this year. We can add a few decent FA and have a good draft but 2014 is where we would have a good amount of money. I just personally feel if we can somehow net a 2nd and glennon is there you take him. This way we can throw him with the dogs. With a good draft whose to say how good our record would be? I mean at at end of the day neither him or Palmer will get us to the Super Bowl next year. Then comes 2014 were we can actually have fun because we have a 1st and 2nd and a good amount of cap room. This is where we can really add to he team. This is the year were I can see the raiders actually sneaking in the playoffs even with a young Qb. Now the third year 2015 this is where I can see us taking a legitimate step as a big time contender. Our Qb will be in year 3 with a very good team. At this point if we had Palmer he would be average at best. What's our option now? Get a Qb and wait another 2-3 years until he's really ready to take a next step? I just think if you're going to rebuild, rebuild the right way. None of us see Super Bowl within these two years right ? So why not jus save 13 million and continue to build the team. It's not fair to us or Palmer: I admit there is some resentment with me because we got him in a horrible trade, but my expectations where high last year. Yes he came off the coach but 4-6 didn't get it done. I wanted him to succeed and still do, but im not comfortable at all with him in late game situations. I'm just still at awe at the trade. A 1st and a 2nd
    I have no problem drafting a QB ,what do we do with Pryor ,if we get rid of Pryor and draft Glennon it's only fair to learn the system through Palmer,Palmer knows the league and is a proven veteran who teach this kid few things off the field as well. We got Palmer because Jackson made a horrible trade living by that old Davis standard of "winning now" which hasn't worked for awhile.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by raiderposting View Post
    My case was we aren't making a deep run next year anyway regardless of a great offseason, we can get rid of guys but will still have cap trouble this year. We can add a few decent FA and have a good draft but 2014 is where we would have a good amount of money. I just personally feel if we can somehow net a 2nd and glennon is there you take him. This way we can throw him with the dogs. With a good draft whose to say how good our record would be? I mean at at end of the day neither him or Palmer will get us to the Super Bowl next year. Then comes 2014 were we can actually have fun because we have a 1st and 2nd and a good amount of cap room. This is where we can really add to he team. This is the year were I can see the raiders actually sneaking in the playoffs even with a young Qb. Now the third year 2015 this is where I can see us taking a legitimate step as a big time contender. Our Qb will be in year 3 with a very good team. At this point if we had Palmer he would be average at best. What's our option now? Get a Qb and wait another 2-3 years until he's really ready to take a next step? I just think if you're going to rebuild, rebuild the right way. None of us see Super Bowl within these two years right ? So why not jus save 13 million and continue to build the team. It's not fair to us or Palmer: I admit there is some resentment with me because we got him in a horrible trade, but my expectations where high last year. Yes he came off the coach but 4-6 didn't get it done. I wanted him to succeed and still do, but im not comfortable at all with him in late game situations. I'm just still at awe at the trade. A 1st and a 2nd
    that's just you. I haven't seen a lot of posts saying 'next year we're done, too'.

    There's something like 4 new playoff teams every year? No reason why Raiders can't be one of them next year with a great off-season.

  5. #65
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    ^ because its nearly impossible to find 2 starting o linemen, 2 starting d linemen, 1 starting MLB, 2 starting CBs in one off season. you can have stop gaps, but your not going to find difference makers.


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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by chucklemethis View Post
    that's just you. I haven't seen a lot of posts saying 'next year we're done, too'.

    There's something like 4 new playoff teams every year? No reason why Raiders can't be one of them next year with a great off-season.
    It's a realistic approach. How many starting positions to do we need to have turnover in? At least 1 WR, LG, RG, RT, DT, DT, MLB, CB, CB, FS, and arguably more like QB (if not now, within 3 years), RB, WR2, DE, and OLB.

    You have to temper expectations when you have in the neighborhood of 8-15 starters you want to change. Rebuilding around a QB is the way to go as well.

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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_RaiderFan5 View Post
    It's a realistic approach. How many starting positions to do we need to have turnover in? At least 1 WR, LG, RG, RT, DT, DT, MLB, CB, CB, FS, and arguably more like QB (if not now, within 3 years), RB, WR2, DE, and OLB.

    You have to temper expectations when you have in the neighborhood of 8-15 starters you want to change. Rebuilding around a QB is the way to go as well.
    If we get a competent OC, the sky's the limit with Palmer.

    But..that's just me. Time will tell

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by raiderposting View Post
    ^ because its nearly impossible to find 2 starting o linemen, 2 starting d linemen, 1 starting MLB, 2 starting CBs in one off season. you can have stop gaps, but your not going to find difference makers.
    That is pretty much true. This team was a disaster when McKenzie took over and it would be extremely hard to do an entire makeover in one year. There are just bad contracts all over the place. Sure they went 8-8, but the next year they couldn't afford to keep Routt or Wimbley among others and had to sign some low cost/ high risk guys just to fill out a roster and stay under the cap. Then consider that the last guys spent all of McKenzie and Allen's draft picks, so there was no room to grow through the draft and get guys they wanted that way either. It was just a tough year for them.

    I'm not really sure what the story with Palmer is...one guy said his contract isn't guaranteed, I listened to the Bengals broadcast last week and the broadcaster said it was $15 million next year, if he gets cut there is a $10 million cap penalty, but frees up $5 million in cap space, but you need another QB. So they were surmising he would be a cap casualty.

    I hope he renegotiates and sticks around. He has taken care of the ball better this year and has played consistently...just not $13 to $15 million well.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by raidersteve View Post
    That is pretty much true. This team was a disaster when McKenzie took over and it would be extremely hard to do an entire makeover in one year. There are just bad contracts all over the place. Sure they went 8-8, but the next year they couldn't afford to keep Routt or Wimbley among others and had to sign some low cost/ high risk guys just to fill out a roster and stay under the cap. Then consider that the last guys spent all of McKenzie and Allen's draft picks, so there was no room to grow through the draft and get guys they wanted that way either. It was just a tough year for them.

    I'm not really sure what the story with Palmer is...one guy said his contract isn't guaranteed, I listened to the Bengals broadcast last week and the broadcaster said it was $15 million next year, if he gets cut there is a $10 million cap penalty, but frees up $5 million in cap space, but you need another QB. So they were surmising he would be a cap casualty.

    I hope he renegotiates and sticks around. He has taken care of the ball better this year and has played consistently...just not $13 to $15 million well.
    he's do 13 million and its non guaranteed. what sucks is that this offseason even if we cut a lot of guys we will be in horrible position again as we would have a ton of dead cap with guys like kelly, seymour, and mcclain. just another example of horrible contracts by AL in kelly and seymour and a horrible judgement of character by drafting mcclain. Al davis was good at finding talent in his hay day. however it became harder for him to do the last 15 years are so. What Al davis was horrible at was judging a man's character.


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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by chucklemethis View Post
    If we get a competent OC, the sky's the limit with Palmer.

    But..that's just me. Time will tell
    Is that what you feel his problem was in Cinci? An incompetent OC?

  11. #71
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    This defense give such a big handicap at halftime, that our only option to stay in games is to pass. When you pass 50 times a game and your WR's are not catching the ball when it hits them in the numbers or they are not catching balls that hit them in the hands and then is deflected into a DB hands for an INT, it's hard to judge Palmer. He is pressing and is forcing himself to make plays, because to be honest guys, he is our best player and he is carrying the team on his shoulders. He is getting no help from the defense or our offensive skill players. We have no running game and it's hard to establish a running game when the opposing team scores on nearly every possession.

    We are a sad case right now. We have holes everywhere. RM needs to be smart this offseason to make progression. He is going to have to be smart when signing free agents, getting quality in the draft, and casting off unproductive players.

    I don't think we need to draft a QB or get a new one from FA or trade. We need to focus on the defense and getting that up to speed. This should be our top priority. This defense is horrible!!! We can look at a QB the following draft.

    But on the flip side, $13M is a lot and it's not guranteed. But I just don't see the positive of bringing in another rookie QB or a QB that really isn't no better than Carson, so unless you wanted to make a move for just salary cap reason, this makes no sense to me.

  12. #72
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    READ MY LIPS..NO NEW QBS............Star L. or Teo and dbs,olm...build it the right way. Trade dmac,seymour,Kelly,Mcclain..etc for more draft picks.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by raiderdave View Post
    READ MY LIPS..NO NEW QBS............Star L. or Teo and dbs,olm...build it the right way. Trade dmac,seymour,Kelly,Mcclain..etc for more draft picks.
    its highly unlikely anyone will take the contracts of kelly, seymour, mcclain we will have to end up cutting them and taking a huge cap hit.


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  14. #74
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    If you don't fix the defense, I don't care who's the QB, we're still losing.
    Let's lay off of Palmer. I think he still has what it takes!

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by HILLBILLYBLACK View Post
    Is that what you feel his problem was in Cinci? An incompetent OC?
    Not exactly. But possibly. All I know is that Carson was playing hurt, with two me-first receivers (last year there at least) that constantly broke off their routes which led to INT's. I've asked Cinci fans about it, they seen it numerous times.

    Again, we've seen glimpses of what Carson can do. Next year..assuming Reggie does what;'s neccessary - I think we can contend with this dude at QB.

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