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  1. #2311
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    Quote Originally Posted by BGeer091 View Post
    Another thing the Rays are so good at is knowing when to move on from a player. I feel like we never have a good idea when to move on. I feel like if at the deadline we are on the outside looking in we need to move on from some players.
    Theo was notorious for his mancrushes and that hurt the Sox a lot. He would hold onto his favorite prospects too long and go hard after players whom others held in middling regard. He was primarily a business-side guy with good respect for analysis and objective measures... but respect that he was willing to override for his personal projects.

    BC came up through the talent evaluation side and was the guy responsible for "the book" (the player development objectives at every level). I think we have a much better chance at determining when to move on from players and might better temper the impulse go grab personal favorites on the FA market with him in the driver's seat.

    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    x2

    I think Napoli and the Sox both have a fairly strong reason to make it work.
    Still seems like the most likely outcome. Both sides are posturing now. The alternatives will be too expensive in terms of dollars, years.

    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    BTW, what's wrong with Salty in Pawtucket? He's a terrible defender and a very streaky low OBP hitter. He's got just one year left before free agency. Why not keep him as the emergency catcher behind Ross and Lavarnway?
    No options and I'm fairly certain that he'd neither clear waivers nor accept the assignment.

    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Not super. For his yearly ERA, just look him up on baseball-reference and click on "defense" and look for "advanced fielding - C", every years ERA, and "runs allowed".

    2011: 4.63; 5.03
    2012: 4.84; 5.20
    Amazing that his cERA went up the year that everyone said that they were comfortable working with him. There's really only one conclusion: he's a terrible game caller.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seguin View Post
    Lavarnway to me looks like the catcher version of Iglesias last year. Nothing about his stint in the majors gets me excited about him. I see his career taking a similar path to Doug Mirabelli. Really good backup that can handle starting if need be. At this point I trust Ross a lot more
    You've not watched enough if you think so. Iglesias has not really hit at any level in his career. He came in as a IFA with a big question mark about whether or not he'd ever hit enough to justify time in a MLB lineup. So far he's proven his detractors true.

    Lavarnway, by contrast, was drafted with relatively little time behind the plate but great success at the plate. He led the nation (college) in hitting the year he was drafted. In contrast to Lavarnway, he's hit for average and power at each level in the minors. While it may be posturing on his part he attributed his lack of hitting success in MLB to his complete focus on the defensive side of the game. Considering he won the the international league top defensive catcher award it was a success.

    Quote Originally Posted by EEasyA View Post
    If you want Upton, better be ready to include Jackie Bradley. Why do sports fans think you can trade other teams players for scrubs. For Example, in the Celtics section forum or other Celtics forums, they wanted to get Demarcus Cousins for Bass, Melo and lee. Lmao.
    I find ironic that the guy whining about how others attacking his posts and holding out the "everyone's entitled to their opinion" card would post "lmao" while lecturing less astute posters on trade values but w/e. Maybe that was just an argument of convenience.

    Two problems with this "insight." The most obvious is that the players suggested in trade are hardly scrubs. Most of them are position players with high upside. We don't all agree on their long term prospects (e.g., I don't like Jacobs but some LOVE him) but those who've suggested the trades are on fan side.

    Second, trades are rarely made for straight up replacements; they are made out of strengths in order to fill weaknesses. If ARI was to trade Upton it would be because they felt like they had enough OF help and could build a better team by turning him into one or more other positions. Specifically, ARI was looking for SS and 3B for Upton at the beginning of the offseason. They've already flipped Trevor Bauer for a SS so an Upton deal would likely hinge on an MLB-ready 3B with team control. Middlebrooks (or Mike Olt from TEX) would be much better trade bait.

  2. #2312
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSoxtober View Post
    No options and I'm fairly certain that he'd neither clear waivers nor accept the assignment.

    Amazing that his cERA went up the year that everyone said that they were comfortable working with him. There's really only one conclusion: he's a terrible game caller.
    OK, get rid of him via trade, or watch the pitching staff flirting with a 5.00+ ERA.

    Worse comes to worse he hits a ton in April/May and they deal him away, and Lavarnway gets some more work in the minors.

    Lavarnway, by contrast, was drafted with relatively little time behind the plate but great success at the plate.
    Salty has 10 years in professional ball:
    minors: 396 games @ catcher; majors 358 games @ catcher

    Lavarnway has 5 years in professional ball:
    minors: 271 @ catcher; majors 36 games @catcher

    Lavarnway has already showed signs of being Salty's superior at catcher, and he has 4 years of control left, while Salty has 1 year left and his trade value has plunged from the height it was at about 5 years ago.

    He led the nation (college) in hitting the year he was drafted. In contrast to Salty, he's hit for average and power at each level in the minors. While it may be posturing on his part he attributed his lack of hitting success in MLB to his complete focus on the defensive side of the game. Considering he won the the international league top defensive catcher award it was a success.
    x2


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  3. #2313
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    Differing opinion=I haven't Watched enough

    I guess well see. I don't see Lavarnway ever hitting the ball well at the major league level. His minor league stats don't change my mind. Whole different ballgame.
    Last edited by Seguin; 12-28-2012 at 11:04 AM.

  4. #2314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucis View Post
    No way I'd give up Bradley for Upton. Frankly, I couldn't care less about Upton. He's overrated and the Dbacks are going to look for a king's ransom for him. Let him stay in Arizona. Pass.
    I agree, Upton is overrated, wouldnt give up anything of value for him.

  5. #2315
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    Quote Originally Posted by poprocksncoke View Post
    I agree, Upton is overrated, wouldnt give up anything of value for him.
    I'm not a big Upton fan by any means. However refusing a deal for a plus fielding (looks easily capable of fielding RF in Fenway), plus base running, plus hitting OF for 3 years of control for an average of ~$12.75M per for an unproven player that projects as a low SLG, average base runner, plus fielder, and average/plus OBP - assuming he actually makes it - I don't know if GM's with the budget would refuse that deal.

    OTOH for the haul it's going to take to get him (well beyond just JBJ) I don't want the guy.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 12-28-2012 at 12:39 PM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  6. #2316
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSoxtober View Post
    Theo was notorious for his mancrushes and that hurt the Sox a lot. He would hold onto his favorite prospects too long and go hard after players whom others held in middling regard. He was primarily a business-side guy with good respect for analysis and objective measures... but respect that he was willing to override for his personal projects.

    BC came up through the talent evaluation side and was the guy responsible for "the book" (the player development objectives at every level). I think we have a much better chance at determining when to move on from players and might better temper the impulse go grab personal favorites on the FA market with him in the driver's seat.


    Still seems like the most likely outcome. Both sides are posturing now. The alternatives will be too expensive in terms of dollars, years.


    No options and I'm fairly certain that he'd neither clear waivers nor accept the assignment.


    Amazing that his cERA went up the year that everyone said that they were comfortable working with him. There's really only one conclusion: he's a terrible game caller.


    You've not watched enough if you think so. Iglesias has not really hit at any level in his career. He came in as a IFA with a big question mark about whether or not he'd ever hit enough to justify time in a MLB lineup. So far he's proven his detractors true.

    Lavarnway, by contrast, was drafted with relatively little time behind the plate but great success at the plate. He led the nation (college) in hitting the year he was drafted. In contrast to Lavarnway, he's hit for average and power at each level in the minors. While it may be posturing on his part he attributed his lack of hitting success in MLB to his complete focus on the defensive side of the game. Considering he won the the international league top defensive catcher award it was a success.


    I find ironic that the guy whining about how others attacking his posts and holding out the "everyone's entitled to their opinion" card would post "lmao" while lecturing less astute posters on trade values but w/e. Maybe that was just an argument of convenience.

    Two problems with this "insight." The most obvious is that the players suggested in trade are hardly scrubs. Most of them are position players with high upside. We don't all agree on their long term prospects (e.g., I don't like Jacobs but some LOVE him) but those who've suggested the trades are on fan side.

    Second, trades are rarely made for straight up replacements; they are made out of strengths in order to fill weaknesses. If ARI was to trade Upton it would be because they felt like they had enough OF help and could build a better team by turning him into one or more other positions. Specifically, ARI was looking for SS and 3B for Upton at the beginning of the offseason. They've already flipped Trevor Bauer for a SS so an Upton deal would likely hinge on an MLB-ready 3B with team control. Middlebrooks (or Mike Olt from TEX) would be much better trade bait.
    I'm not whining. I hate to keep bringing this up. I was unfairly attacked first over something stupid. I responded on how i thought was appropriate. Time to move on. Whining would be complaining about something that didn't happen . You can choose to ignore it but it did happen.

    Furthermore, i didn't attack any poster for making an absurd trade. I was speaking in general terms. Notice how i gave the Celtics examples. It happens in the bruins forum too or other sports forums. Why do people want to nitpick my words and turn it to what i didn't say. Plus the issue was already dead and you had to bring it up while you were quoting everyone. No one commented on it. It was a non issue. I admit i shouldn't have put lmao off.

    I apologize for that. We should be talking about the Red Sox not about whose grammar is better and so forth. I'm moving on. The issue is not a big deal to me. No hard feelings from me. Back to Baseball, i agree with your trade analysis on how it works.
    Last edited by EEasyA; 12-28-2012 at 01:20 PM.

  7. #2317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucis View Post
    I don't particularly want Upton. And certainly not in any deal that included JBJr, Bogearts, or Barnes. And if one or more of those three was required, I'd hang up the phone ... HARD!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    I'm not a big Upton fan by any means. However refusing a deal for a plus fielding (looks easily capable of fielding RF in Fenway), plus base running, plus hitting OF for 3 years of control for an average of ~$12.75M per for an unproven player that projects as a low SLG, average base runner, plus fielder, and average/plus OBP - assuming he actually makes it - I don't know if GM's with the budget would refuse that deal.

    OTOH for the haul it's going to take to get him (well beyond just JBJ) I don't want the guy.
    IMO Upton would be a mistake. I have never really been sold on him. For the same package of prospects it seems like we can get someone like Headly. We may have to overpay for him but can you imagine WMB an him at our corner if for tbe next 5 years. If Drew pans out that would be a sick IF.

  8. #2318
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSoxtober View Post
    Theo was notorious for his mancrushes and that hurt the Sox a lot. He would hold onto his favorite prospects too long and go hard after players whom others held in middling regard. He was primarily a business-side guy with good respect for analysis and objective measures... but respect that he was willing to override for his personal projects.

    BC came up through the talent evaluation side and was the guy responsible for "the book" (the player development objectives at every level). I think we have a much better chance at determining when to move on from players and might better temper the impulse go grab personal favorites on the FA market with him in the driver's seat.

    If you are going to quote an article, please say where it is from. This is not your personal analysis.
    Last edited by RedSoxtober; 12-28-2012 at 11:13 PM.

  9. #2319
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    not trying to attack you. I just would like other people to be able to read the article too.

    I remember reading that, Just not sure where that was.
    Last edited by SoxFan101NlB; 12-28-2012 at 03:09 PM.

  10. #2320
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    Everyone knows about Theo's crushes, and I'm sure it was mentioned plenty of times in articles, especially when he left. Every single outlet wrote articles on BC and his rise through the organization when he was promoted. All you have to do is google the first sentence he wrote, and the only thing that shows up is his post. Don't accuse someone of plagiarism with no proof.

  11. #2321
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    I was not intending to. I really didn't mean to at all. I just remember reading that exact paragraph today on my phone. That is why I figured he should have quoted it. I knew that I shouldn't have said it, but I didn't mean to attack. Not trying to start a fight on this forum there are way too many of those already.

  12. #2322
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    .

  13. #2323
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    Is LaRoche a really bad fit here or is that just me?

  14. #2324
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan101NlB View Post
    Is LaRoche a really bad fit here or is that just me?
    Since we are going to be nowhere near World Series contention, and will need everything to go right for a wild card spot in atlest each of the next 2 years (maybe 3) until the farm system is seasoned and ready to make an impact at the major league level, losing a draft pick for him is a bad fit for this team.
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  15. #2325
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan101NlB View Post
    Is LaRoche a really bad fit here or is that just me?
    I think people dont want him here because we have to surrender a draft pick if we sign him because the Nationals offered a quilified offer. Read this link http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/bos...nt-to-red-sox/

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