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  1. #1651
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    The more I think about it, it looks like:

    1. Ellsbury won't be dealt if at all until the deadline/waiver period. No real good fit for him.
    2. Salty will be dealt later on, but before opening day
    3. Hamilton isn't coming, we are in the bidding to force the price up, that's it.
    4. No Napoli? Sign Swisher (4 @ $58M)
    5. Marcum seems to be the best price/performance arm we can sign. He'll sign after Sanchez is all I expect.
    I agree on all counts. I just want to add though that while I completely agree with your logic Bags, I would personally absolutely hate if the Sox signed Marcum. I know his ERA's say otherwise but the guy just isn't good. Throwing 88 mph cheese with secondary pitches that have basic movement and relying on an unconventional delivery won't bode well for him in Fenway. I mean I'll take the IP but I'm just not a fan of Marcum, my gut says he'd be a bust here.

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  2. #1652
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    Quote Originally Posted by chomaru View Post
    Clay will be this years Sanchez.
    Jonathan Sanchez?

    Quote Originally Posted by SirHizz View Post
    When will we ever get a good/great pitcher again? As soon as someone hits the market, we'll have to pay north of 150m, that's obviously another inevitable risk. When Felix hits the FA market at 29, he'll have thrown a gazillion of Innings. Would you be ready to throw a stupid amount of cash at him? Each and every FA signing is risky, that's why I don't think Hamilton possesses more risk than i.e. Cano next year (Cano is gonna get more years than JH very easily and that alone is trouble)
    Not sure if it was clear but I think your earlier question about how Sanchez was a good #2 then an okay #3 earlier (I had the same question) lay in something that was not clear. Bags was saying that about Sanchez' prior 4 years, not the next 4yrs of his contract. That may have become obvious in the discussion.

    I don't think that the Sox avoid Sanchez "because of the kids" or because of the money. I think they avoid him because he's not that that good a value. I'm with Bags on this. Personally, I don't think that his transition to the AL was that great. He had success primarily against weaker hitting AL clubs that would be middling offenses even in the NL. Given a year for AL clubs to make adjustments to him I'm not confident that he'd be a 110 OPS+ pitcher. So-so numbers against AL East teams, against whom he'd pitch half the season, and the general downward trend in his numbers (OPS+) are also a concern. He'd be a good buy at $60M/4yr but at either more AAV or years.

    As for King Felix, I'd be very cautious about extending a big contract with him when he hits FA after 2014 for precisely the reason that you mentioned. By the time hits FA (if the Ms don't lock him up) he will have amassed roughly 2100IP at age 28. To put that in perspective, the last guy like him to hit the (trade) market was Johan Santana. Folks around here scoffed at Bags and I when we argued against trading for him (Lester or Buchholz, Masterson, and 2 more pieces) after 2008. We noted a 3yr regression in his performance. While still dominant the trend suggested where the next big contract would land. And we were right. So far the Mets have gotten one full season from Santana (the last year of his Twins deal) followed by three 3/4 seasons and one completely missed year. The time that he has pitched has been nowhere near the peak he had running up to the trade. Felix has a better physical build for the workload but the significantly higher IP count at the same age should be a warning sign. Like Johan his performance is still dominant but xFIP is starting to climb. Beware.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirHizz View Post
    Hey...if it doesn't work out with Sanchez, we could always trade him. Every contract can be traded, that's what I learned over the last 12-24 months.
    This is a terrible outlook. Yes, contracts can be moved but that should not be part of the plan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic AL View Post
    Shane is in boston. maybe they will announce both deals today
    The schedule was for him to have his physical today and announcement tomorrow. Don't oversell it; it's been the plan since last week.

  3. #1653
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    The more I think about it, it looks like:

    1. Ellsbury won't be dealt if at all until the deadline/waiver period. No real good fit for him.
    2. Salty will be dealt later on, but before opening day
    3. Hamilton isn't coming, we are in the bidding to force the price up, that's it.
    4. No Napoli? Sign Swisher (4 @ $58M)
    5. Marcum seems to be the best price/performance arm we can sign. He'll sign after Sanchez is all I expect.
    Basically agree though I still think that the Sox match up with PHI for Ellsbury, even after the trade for Revere. They lost Juan Pierre and Victorino from their primary OF slots. Dominic Brown is still WAY underperforming against expectations, Mayberry is nothing special, ... I'd think they'd still welcome the improvement in the last year of Halladay's guaranteed contract.

    The market for Salty certainly seems likely to improve as names come off the board. Napoli going back out on the market (if true) could mess things up.

  4. #1654
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    FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal writes that while it's "too strong" to say that Boston's deal with Mike Napoli is in jeopardy, the two sides still have some issues to work through.

    Napoli was originally expected to have his introductory press conference on Tuesday, but the event didn't happen. This led to some speculation that the deal may have hit a snag, possibly relating to his physical. It's not clear what the current issue is or when there will be a resolution. Napoli is slated to get a three-year, $39 million contract.
    via roto

  5. #1655
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    Quote Originally Posted by mooz View Post
    I agree on all counts. I just want to add though that while I completely agree with your logic Bags, I would personally absolutely hate if the Sox signed Marcum. I know his ERA's say otherwise but the guy just isn't good. Throwing 88 mph cheese with secondary pitches that have basic movement and relying on an unconventional delivery won't bode well for him in Fenway. I mean I'll take the IP but I'm just not a fan of Marcum, my gut says he'd be a bust here.
    Yeah. I worry about him, but I think the price tag for Sanchez and Jackson will be too high, and that the supposedly "cheap" ChiSox SP's are not so cheap to deal for. So in the calculating minds of BC Marcum is the defacto guy.

    My hopes on him is that he pitched well in Milwakee which is a launching pad. His fastball is Wakefield like, but he does have 5 functional pitches which he throws for strikes fairly well. His HR/9 is pretty good as well. He's usually good pre ASB and brutal after. Maybe he's just your basic #5 SP that should be on a tight pitch count (meh after pitch 75). So build him up, or just don't use him after 75 pitches.

    He has been spanked by the Yanks and Tigers however.

    Well. We'll see. If he signs for 1/2 the price of Sanchez and for 3 years it will appeal to the FO.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  6. #1656
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Yeah. I worry about him, but I think the price tag for Sanchez and Jackson will be too high, and that the supposedly "cheap" ChiSox SP's are not so cheap to deal for. So in the calculating minds of BC Marcum is the defacto guy.

    My hopes on him is that he pitched well in Milwakee which is a launching pad. His fastball is Wakefield like, but he does have 5 functional pitches which he throws for strikes fairly well. His HR/9 is pretty good as well. He's usually good pre ASB and brutal after. Maybe he's just your basic #5 SP that should be on a tight pitch count (meh after pitch 75). So build him up, or just don't use him after 75 pitches.

    He has been spanked by the Yanks and Tigers however.

    Well. We'll see. If he signs for 1/2 the price of Sanchez and for 3 years it will appeal to the FO.
    Oh yeah for sure, like I said I definitely understand your logic in why you think it will happen and I agree with it. And I could learn to live with it if he posts an ERA in the 4-4.50 range for 3 years, eats innings and only costs us, like you said, about half of Sanchez.

    One question I'll have to put a little more thought into before I give my opinion on it though is would signing Marcum block our young arms who are 1-2 years away and have a negative affect on their development? I'm leaning no since it would require all 3 of Barnes, Rubby and Webster to work out for any of them to be blocked and assuming 3 out of 3 prospect pitchers will pan out is just silly. I'm under the assumption at least one maybe two will end up a solid bullpen piece and of course there's the possibility any of them could just bust all together.

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  7. #1657
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    Ken Rosenthal‏@Ken_Rosenthal

    Source: #RedSox, Dempster in serious discussions. No deal yet; still possible he could sign elsewhere.
    Please god no! Not what he wants.

  8. #1658
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Yeah. I worry about him, but I think the price tag for Sanchez and Jackson will be too high, and that the supposedly "cheap" ChiSox SP's are not so cheap to deal for. So in the calculating minds of BC Marcum is the defacto guy.

    My hopes on him is that he pitched well in Milwakee which is a launching pad. His fastball is Wakefield like, but he does have 5 functional pitches which he throws for strikes fairly well. His HR/9 is pretty good as well. He's usually good pre ASB and brutal after. Maybe he's just your basic #5 SP that should be on a tight pitch count (meh after pitch 75). So build him up, or just don't use him after 75 pitches.

    He has been spanked by the Yanks and Tigers however.

    Well. We'll see. If he signs for 1/2 the price of Sanchez and for 3 years it will appeal to the FO.
    You really think he's getting a 3 year deal? I would be very surprised. I don't even think he is remotely in the same category of Jackson/Sanchez. I think a one year deal is a lot more likely. Might as well re-sign Aaron Cook, Marcum is DONE.

  9. #1659
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    He's a funny guy who pulls pranks, so I'm not surprised they are after him.

  10. #1660
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaudBall View Post
    You really think he's getting a 3 year deal? I would be very surprised. I don't even think he is remotely in the same category of Jackson/Sanchez. I think a one year deal is a lot more likely. Might as well re-sign Aaron Cook, Marcum is DONE.
    Marcum is not in the class of Sanchez/Jackson performance wise AND price wise.

    Marcum will sign a one year deal if he can't find more, but will take more years if he isn't low balled.

    Done? Based on what? He looked good from May-August last year - if short of GS and IP.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  11. #1661
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    Quote Originally Posted by mooz View Post
    Oh yeah for sure, like I said I definitely understand your logic in why you think it will happen and I agree with it. And I could learn to live with it if he posts an ERA in the 4-4.50 range for 3 years, eats innings and only costs us, like you said, about half of Sanchez.

    One question I'll have to put a little more thought into before I give my opinion on it though is would signing Marcum block our young arms who are 1-2 years away and have a negative affect on their development? I'm leaning no since it would require all 3 of Barnes, Rubby and Webster to work out for any of them to be blocked and assuming 3 out of 3 prospect pitchers will pan out is just silly. I'm under the assumption at least one maybe two will end up a solid bullpen piece and of course there's the possibility any of them could just bust all together.
    With injuries to pitchers, and the liklihood of at least one of: Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, Doubront getting dealt in the next two years, I'd say we'll have lots of room. Or they just deal Marcum in year 2 or 3 of his deal if they are done/need space.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  12. #1662
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    Kens tweet is misleading . He says They In Serious Talks but nothing is close. would that be that they are just talking?
    Proud to be PSD's Chris Kelly!
    The Chris Kelly Watch: 3 G /0 A/ 3 Pts / 2 +/-


    He went to the top self where Momma keeps the Peanut Butter & Where i hid the Porno's

  13. #1663
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    I'd rather sign Jackson than Dempster. It will probably be a bad signing if it happens since he rejected a 2-year offer before. That means 3+ years for a guy who's 38? PASS.

  14. #1664
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    He's 35

  15. #1665
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    Dempster........LARRY!!!!!!!??????

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