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  1. #1
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    Comp Spec System Discussion...Again

    Despite the fact that it will lead to a lot of extra work for both of us, Randy and I are in favor of adding a comp spec system. We'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on the subject. We're using TKO's comp system as a model for now but that could be changed or tweaked a bit.

    The reasons are pretty simple...the talent pool in the league isn't that great. Our original fear was that player editing would cause the ratings to get out of control eventually. But we have the TKO league as proof that a comp system (and editing in general) doesn't necessarily mean the talent levels will keep raising and reach an unrealistic level. That league is almost three decades in and although ratings have gone up, the talent level is fairly even. There is statistical evidence that the TKO league hasn't been affected drastically by having player edits and comp specs. There are a few anomolies (ahem...Atkins) but other than that things have been reasonable realistic.

    Our league, on the other hand, has had some subtle raises in ratings even without player edits but we haven't had the benefit of additional talent being added to the available pool of players. As a whole, it is potentially killing the league. Superstars exist in our league, but there is zero incentive to let them walk for free agency (assuming they're willing to extend) without a comp spec system. In addition, there's no use bothering to pursue trades because no one offers significant talent in return. The GM holding the superstar has little leverage without the possibility of a comp spec in the future, and the guys that are making the offers can expect their prospects to be ready for the MLB level quickly because of the speed of development in this league. Essentially, both the trade market and FA are affected by this. There's no reason to rebuild when you can't get a good return on your star players, and there's no reason to let them walk when you'll get nothing in return.

    There will always be overpaying in FA (there has been in every single league I've been in) but I think the lack of available talent perpetuates it. With a comp system in place we could see the trade market pick up, and more players hitting FA. All in all, a more even distribution of talent across the league and a higher number of impact players, without killing the league's long term potential. In fact, this very well could be what saves it.

    Anyway, discuss...

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  2. #2
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    I'm probably missing something obvious, but I'm unclear on how a comp system helps the trade market. Can someone explain?

    Thanks

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by lstephen View Post
    I'm probably missing something obvious, but I'm unclear on how a comp system helps the trade market. Can someone explain?

    Thanks
    For one thing, you'll be more willing to give up a spec to get a rental cuz you could be getting a comp spec in return. Additionally, GMs would be more willing to give up their stars instead of just resigning them, because other GMs will be more willing to trade actual specs knowing that they could get that comp.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKid View Post
    For one thing, you'll be more willing to give up a spec to get a rental cuz you could be getting a comp spec in return. Additionally, GMs would be more willing to give up their stars instead of just resigning them, because other GMs will be more willing to trade actual specs knowing that they could get that comp.
    Ok, this is where my confusion comes from as this doesn't match with my experiences so far. Previously when I've inquired on a good to great player (rental or not), I've been told I simply don't have the talent to acquire them.

    Now I would be trading for that player plus a possible comp spec, meaning I would be even further away from being able to acquire them.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by lstephen View Post
    Ok, this is where my confusion comes from as this doesn't match with my experiences so far. Previously when I've inquired on a good to great player (rental or not), I've been told I simply don't have the talent to acquire them.

    Now I would be trading for that player plus a possible comp spec, meaning I would be even further away from being able to acquire them.
    Actually, that probably comes from the fact that the majority of the trades that do get put together in this league are deals that several of us wouldn't do. We're used to getting better value out of our stars from time spent in other leagues, and don't see the benefit in taking a minimal return just to get the ball rolling on a rebuild. So you very well may have been offering market value, but several of us think market value in this league sucks and don't bother trading because of it.

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by azazel529 View Post
    Actually, that probably comes from the fact that the majority of the trades that do get put together in this league are deals that several of us wouldn't do. We're used to getting better value out of our stars from time spent in other leagues, and don't see the benefit in taking a minimal return just to get the ball rolling on a rebuild. So you very well may have been offering market value, but several of us think market value in this league sucks and don't bother trading because of it.
    So, how do comp specs help overcome this? Now you'll be trading star + comp spec, meaning you'll see market value as being even worse.

  7. #7
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    My suggestion is we lower the age for the best comps. It seems in this league that players age 20 are more or less comparable to players aged 24ish in TKO and players seem to decline a lot earlier as well, so a 31 year old might be still in his prime in TKO, whereas here they'd be entering their twilight.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheKid View Post
    My suggestion is we lower the age for the best comps. It seems in this league that players age 20 are more or less comparable to players aged 24ish in TKO and players seem to decline a lot earlier as well, so a 31 year old might be still in his prime in TKO, whereas here they'd be entering their twilight.
    That's a great point, there's definitely a bit of a slant with ages in this league compared to TKO, although I think the speed of development has a lot to do with that. We should probably look in to cranking that down further, actually. Specs that don't fully develop in half a season would help the trade market a ton too, and possibly even out that early decline issue we've had.

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  9. #9
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    Just for reference, I found the post where Twitchy showed that TKO's talent levels are fine when someone was trying to argue that as a reason to reboot.


    Quote:
    The talent level is ridiculous in this league right now. The bad teams are BAD and the good teams just pick them apart.
    I love the "The talent is ridiculous in this league" argument. In 2015 the AL scored 5 runs a game. In 2035 the AL scores 5 runs a game. The 2015 teams allowed 5.1 runs a game in the AL and in 2035 it's 5. The talent has been pretty damn consistent in this league.
    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...&postcount=357

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by azazel529 View Post
    I love the "The talent is ridiculous in this league" argument. In 2015 the AL scored 5 runs a game. In 2035 the AL scores 5 runs a game. The 2015 teams allowed 5.1 runs a game in the AL and in 2035 it's 5. The talent has been pretty damn consistent in this league.
    I don't think this statement refutes what's originally claimed.

    If in 2015 the best team averaged 6 runs a game and the worst average 4 then the average would be around 5. If in 2035 The best team averages 9 and the worst averages 1, then the average would be around 5.

    BIG DISCLAIMER: I haven't looked in any detail at TKO.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by lstephen View Post
    I don't think this statement refutes what's originally claimed.

    If in 2015 the best team averaged 6 runs a game and the worst average 4 then the average would be around 5. If in 2035 The best team averages 9 and the worst averages 1, then the average would be around 5.

    BIG DISCLAIMER: I haven't looked in any detail at TKO.
    I see your point, but Twitchy is pretty much right on the money. The teams in TKO that continue to do well happen to be run by very good GMs. It has nothing to do with the talent levels of the league, or anyone being "picked apart" because of it. The talents are even enough that things are still fairly realistic, and not significantly different from 20 seasons earlier.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by azazel529 View Post
    I see your point, but Twitchy is pretty much right on the money. The teams in TKO that continue to do well happen to be run by very good GMs. It has nothing to do with the talent levels of the league, or anyone being "picked apart" because of it. The talents are even enough that things are still fairly realistic, and not significantly different from 20 seasons earlier.
    For sure. I wasn't claiming that talent levels were off in TKO, I just think that the figure given doesn't refute the claim. If everyone is happy with TKO's levels, then I'm in absolutely no position to claim otherwise

  13. #13
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    Whenever the vote is ready my vote will be no like last time, hate comp spects. The talent level is fine in this league, no reason to mess with that. We seem to be getting some new gms so why are we messing with this now? I thought we were figuring out contraction first.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHoover101709 View Post
    Whenever the vote is ready my vote will be no like last time, hate comp spects. The talent level is fine in this league, no reason to mess with that. We seem to be getting some new gms so why are we messing with this now? I thought we were figuring out contraction first.
    Even with the new GMs, we only have 21. That is garbage compared to TKO's 30 plus 1 on the waiting list. I've tried recruiting people to the league and they say no thanks because they think there's nothing happening. I think anything that will fuel a trade market needs to be explored before we have even more GM problems. You can only contract so many times.

  15. #15
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    I like comp specs and wanted them since I was first in this league.

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