Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 26
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    LA
    Posts
    33,049
    vCash
    1894

    The curious case of Javale McGee

    The team obviously values his potential with the contract they gave him, he is obviously a talented individual who can elevate the team if his mind is right. His season has been a sort of mixed bag in every sense, his perception is so conflicted that people within the statistical community range from questioning George Karl's intelligence for not playing him to those who think hes developing him nicely and probably playing him too much. So which is closer to reality?


    Individually his productivity is off the chart, if you translate his stats to 36MPG hes basically a 20-11-3BLKS threat, so why does he only play 18MPG? Why doesn't he start over the far less productive Koufas?

    Well a look at his +/- numbers reveal that the units that feature him tend to fair very poorly, like a 180 degree difference. This has been consistent with his career numbers outside of that lone playoff appearance.

    Skeptics will point out that hes playing with bench players which even on a team as deep as the Nuggs is still a disadvantage. Which can be true, we only have a small amount of minutes from a Javale+Starters unit sample, the early results arent pretty. It seems his presence has stifled the starters game.

    Check out the early season returns on his starting teammates

    The Javale Effect (Version .01)
    Per minute rates followed by ( Team +/- during that span)

    Code:
     Teammate  --  Without Javale  -- With Javale     --      NET
    Ty         --   13.9PTS (+3.6) -- 10.8PTS (- 6.1)  --  -9.7             
    Iggy       --   16.7PTS (+3.3) -- 14.3PTS (- 8.4)  --  -11.7
    Danilo     --   17.8PTS (+5.1) -- 14.6PTS (-10.9)  --  -16
    Faried     --   15.9PTS (+2.3) -- 13.3PTS (- 4.3)  --  -6.6










    So heres the conundrum, they have played at their best with Koufas, but they have invested too much money Javale for him to just be a project. Should they go all in and hope it clicks, stay the course and hope his development intertwines with their high hopes for the season, or move him?


    I guess the bigger question Im asking is, what do you make of a very productive player with a history of dragging down his teammates efficiency?







    Do +/- stats outweigh individual production in certain extreme cases?
    Yo Kobe, get at me bro, we'd have a good time, man

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,138
    vCash
    1500
    I think you play with who gives you the best chance to win. That doesn't mean you don't play him more minutes, but you have to make him earn it. Eventually I think it will click with this guy. He is just so physically gifted.
    One of the most overused sayings on this forum

    "and its not even close" When in reality it is quite close.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    14,826
    vCash
    1500
    You mean the Monta Ellis effect? Tyreke, Monta, Javale. These guys are ball stoppers that flat out do not help their teams win games. Counting stats really don't matter if they're not taken into context. It's about creating a balanced/dynamic offense.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    53,880
    vCash
    1503
    The commentators were talking about this one game and they said he has bad asthma. that plus the high altitude is the main clutprit. but he has a lot of skill, just still very raw.


    but yea, asthma.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2,103
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    You mean the Monta Ellis effect? Tyreke, Monta, Javale. These guys are ball stoppers that flat out do not help their teams win games. Counting stats really don't matter if they're not taken into context. It's about creating a balanced/dynamic offense.
    But these stats are taken out of context too. Anyone who doesn't watch the Nuggets looks and are like he isn't good. People who watch the Nuggets can tell you. Javale and Miller run the second unit. He rarely plays with Lawson. Karl won't play Faried and McGee together in the second half. Lawson is down in productivity this year. Iggy is about the only one he see's solid minutes with. But everyone besides Nuggets fans don't know this.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2,103
    vCash
    1500
    Nuggets fans will also agree, the only players playing up to par are Faried, Iggy, and McGee. You also need to look who the starting center is. Koufos. He doesn't score at all. Mcgee Puts up points at least. Ignorant people will come in here and bash McGee but he has been a bright spot this year.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    14,826
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by tp13baby View Post
    But these stats are taken out of context too. Anyone who doesn't watch the Nuggets looks and are like he isn't good. People who watch the Nuggets can tell you. Javale and Miller run the second unit. He rarely plays with Lawson. Karl won't play Faried and McGee together in the second half. Lawson is down in productivity this year. Iggy is about the only one he see's solid minutes with. But everyone besides Nuggets fans don't know this.
    Totally, If only there was some magical way where other teams games could be broadcast to our living rooms and non biased fans could also use their judgement on players from around the league... well a kid can dream.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    28,953
    vCash
    1500
    I was talking about this to some people in the GT the other day. Dude is beasting in the limited mins he's getting. Koufos shouldn't be playing more than McGee by any means. Karl needs to play the kid more.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2,103
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    Totally, If only there was some magical way where other teams games could be broadcast to our living rooms and non biased fans could also use their judgement on players from around the league... well a kid can dream.
    Nice sarcastic post.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    1 Mile High
    Posts
    5,502
    vCash
    1500
    so Javale has sports asthma not regular asthma meaning that it is induced when he works at a high level. the main culprit here is GK, one of the oldest coaches in the nba, and along with Dantoni, the most stubborn coach in the nba. he has failed the nuggs and is at the point where he is now hindering their growth. GK, despite 28 or so years of coaching, is one of the worst coaches when it comes to inbounding plays. the last 2 times the nuggs have had a game winning chance, both with adequate time remaining, the nuggs have failed to get a shot off. GK ends his game with just about every player out of position. He puts Miller at the 2, Iggy at the 3, Gallo at the 4 and Faried at the 5. GK will likely be fired at the end of the year, teams will foolishly line up to take him. Javale is the best center on this team. He is a great high energy compliment to Faried but still, still, he benches him and shakes his head at him, praising Koufus despite the fact that Koufus has played horribly in big situations. The Nuggets are right now better than they seem, their schedule has been absolutely brutal, with so many road games. Still, with Koufus at his best, they only ever be a 1st round exit but Javale at his best can get them past the 1st. Look at his performance against the lakers last year.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    28,953
    vCash
    1500
    To me the only way the kid is going to learn is if you play him though. Yeah, he does some stupid **** out there, but he needs the experience, particularly with the starters

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    LA
    Posts
    33,049
    vCash
    1894
    Here are the minutes if anyone else was interested

    With/Without - Minutes
    Ty - 177/444
    Iggy - 202/398
    Danillo - 158/379
    Faried - 127/392
    Yo Kobe, get at me bro, we'd have a good time, man

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2,103
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Here are the minutes if anyone else was interested

    With/Without - Minutes
    Ty - 177/444
    Iggy - 202/398
    Danillo - 158/379
    Faried - 127/392
    thats what im saying. You can't build a chemistry with players if you don't play with them. McGee should start. He isn't a ballstopper like previously said. That was ignorant. But he needs to play more with starters and that very well may change.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Windsor, Earth's Rectum (as reported by Stephen Colbert).
    Posts
    8,013
    vCash
    1500
    Intresting situation and use of stats.
    I guess there is a question of chemistry here. Karl is a solid coach, but there were very high expectations with this roster and they are currently belowe .500 and have lost very winnable games against; Philly, Orlando, Phoenix Utah and Goldenstate, though they have won against Memphis.

    There wins, so far, have generally come against teams who were in the lottery last season. So I would say this team is underachieving.

    If what you are doing isn't working, you have to make a change. Is the change as drastic as starting McGee and giving him 36 minutes? Maybe.

    It is clear while he is on the court, in the highlights I've seen that he is a high-energy and emotional player, which has it's pros and cons.

    Considering how much they are paying him, I would try starting him.

    It's hard to judge him based on numbers in Washington, because that team was so bad. And he plays a lot with the bench right now, and when he gets on with the starters, they are perhaps in need of a rest. There are a lot of factors that could work against him when looking at +/-

    But, as they say, there is only one way to find out.
    What the eye doesn't see and the mind doesn't know, doesn't exist.
    Follow me on Twitter and I'll follow back: @JasonJHorn

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    14,826
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by tp13baby View Post
    thats what im saying. You can't build a chemistry with players if you don't play with them. McGee should start. He isn't a ballstopper like previously said. That was ignorant. But he needs to play more with starters and that very well may change.
    Generally if a guy averages less than 1 assist a game his entire career it's a good indication he's not exactly in the Gasol mold of post passing and ball movement.

    When I think of Javale McGee and his epic basketball awareness, this play always pops up in my head http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...053421551.html There's a reason why a desperate/young Wizards franchise were willing to part with one of the most athletically gifted young centers in the league. BBIQ is in the negatives.
    Last edited by tredigs; 12-02-2012 at 03:45 PM. Reason: link

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •