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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampirate View Post
    At this point it doesn't matter. Even if Andrea was his 2012 pre injury self I doubt this team contends.

    It wouldn't bother me if everyone on this team except Jonas is gone next year (including the coach and GM). Something needs to change. While Bargs is certainly part of the problem this year, he's far from the only one.

    As of right now, until the Raptors land a top 3 draft pick they are pretty much spinning their wheels.
    Contend for playoffs or championship?

    We def need to get rid of Bargnani for starters, try to acquire a first round pick for this upcoming draft & bring in a solid cast of veterans to nurture our young talent.

    & agree on last point.
    Raptors Franchise Checklist:
    Rebuild with young players [ ]
    Build contending team [ ]
    Host NBA All-Star Weekend [ ]
    Win Championship [ ]

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by aman_13 View Post
    But as Bramaca stated, there hasn't been any motion. The Raptors are not creating open shots. Even in the preseason when they were winning, a lot of the shots made were contested.
    Bryan should be faulted here. As I've pointed out many times, playmaking is non-existent from the wing position. Bryan did not create a team that would be successful within a motion scheme despite being made aware from his coach that this is what he had in mind. I'm assuming that he thought that Landry was going to fulfil this role for Toronto but other than that playmaking is predominating coming from the PG position.

    Even then, I don't understand why it's the fault of the motion offense. Outside of that 13 game outlier, Andrea has never been a steady contributor. I think this is mostly because of his lack of conditioning.

    Quote Originally Posted by aman_13 View Post
    When Casey arrived, he talked about how there are similarities in Dirk an Andrea's games and that he will give Andrea similar looks. He did that and it was working. I hate making excuses, I'm not one of those pro Andrea posters. I think it's time to move on but Casey completely changed his offence when it really wasn't warranted. That I have an issue with.
    He never actually said this. I didn't miss a pre- or a post- game interview last season.

    From day 1, he said that he wanted to instil a motion offense but not until the Raptors learned how to play defence. And although he said that he would try to give Andrea the same looks as Dirk, they didn't really work on offense at all because their defence was terrible. They just happened to give the ball a lot to Andrea because he already had an established role from the previous season as the number one option.

    Even if our offensive scheme changed from accommodating Andrea to accommodating Lowry, historically, Andrea has never been consistent. It's a bit simplistic to simply pin this entirely on Casey.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwrighter View Post
    It really boils down to his mental make up. He's struggling because he's weak mentally. He can't adapt, nor wants to.

    I honestly hope that this is Casey's passive aggressive attempt at running Andrea out of town because there is no way this team is going to play well with him on the court. Jose is WAYY more valuable to the team than Dre & I'd rather keep the best backup PG in the L over Bargs.
    Agreed that Andrea is not strong mentally in regards to the game and it certainly looks like this is the beginning of the end of the Bargs era in Toronto. Maybe Doug Smith could pull a Shi Davidi and give us a Travis Snider like interview about what happened in his time here lol if he gets traded.
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by aman_13 View Post
    Agreed that Andrea is not strong mentally in regards to the game and it certainly looks like this is the beginning of the end of the Bargs era in Toronto. Maybe Doug Smith could pull a Shi Davidi and give us a Travis Snider like interview about what happened in his time here lol if he gets traded.
    Pretty easy. Bryan Colangelo turned him into a C.

    If you watch some of his earlier games and some of his Euroleague games, he looked a lot more like a SF.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freakazoid View Post
    Bryan should be faulted here. As I've pointed out many times, playmaking is non-existent from the wing position. Bryan did not create a team that would be successful within a motion scheme despite being made aware from his coach that this is what he had in mind. I'm assuming that he thought that Landry was going to fulfil this role for Toronto but other than that playmaking is predominating coming from the PG position.

    Even then, I don't understand why it's the fault of the motion offense. Outside of that 13 game outlier, Andrea has never been a steady contributor. I think this is mostly because of his lack of conditioning.



    He never actually said this. I didn't miss a pre- or a post- game interview last season.

    From day 1, he said that he wanted to instil a motion offense but not until the Raptors learned how to play defence. And although he said that he would try to give Andrea the same looks as Dirk, they didn't really work on offense at all because their defence was terrible. They just happened to give the ball a lot to Andrea because he already had an established role from the previous season as the number one option.

    Even if our offensive scheme changed from accommodating Andrea to accommodating Lowry, historically, Andrea has never been consistent. It's a bit simplistic to simply pin this entirely on Casey.
    I never heard much about the motion offense last season. Casey said that they ran the Dallas offense last season, im pretty sure he did that because he believed in Andrea's abilities.
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by aman_13 View Post
    I never heard much about the motion offense last season. Casey said that they ran the Dallas offense last season, im pretty sure he did that because he believed in Andrea's abilities.
    Dallas' offence IS the motion offence...

    They never actually got to do it because our defence needed a lot of work.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by aman_13 View Post
    I never heard much about the motion offense last season. Casey said that they ran the Dallas offense last season, im pretty sure he did that because he believed in Andrea's abilities.
    i have a pretty clear recollection of Casey saying last year that they were going to focus on defense first so he probably never bothered to install a new scheme in year one. this might have been what he had in mind all along.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freakazoid View Post
    Pretty easy. Bryan Colangelo turned him into a C.

    If you watch some of his earlier games and some of his Euroleague games, he looked a lot more like a SF.
    True, but i guess BC has some justification for that as Bargs can't play the 3 and because of Bosh, they tried to put him at the 5 hoping they could play together. There was some success there, albeit limited.
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by aman_13 View Post
    True, but i guess BC has some justification for that as Bargs can't play the 3 and because of Bosh, they tried to put him at the 5 hoping they could play together. There was some success there, albeit limited.
    When Andrea was really skinny, he was agile enough and had decent enough ball handling skills to play the 3.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freakazoid View Post
    Dallas' offence IS the motion offence...

    They never actually got to do it because our defence needed a lot of work.
    I don't know then, from the way Casey was talking, he made it sound like they were two different systems.
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    i have a pretty clear recollection of Casey saying last year that they were going to focus on defense first so he probably never bothered to install a new scheme in year one. this might have been what he had in mind all along.
    I remember that too, and yeah maybe this is what Casey had in plan from the moment he got here.
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  12. #57
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    I'm just tired of the offence changing of this team.. These guys are young and need to adapt to one thing and see it all the way.
    The Big Three!!

  13. #58
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    yea it's partly Casey's fault, but that doesnt mean he should shoot 35%


  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddler The Gr8 View Post
    yea it's partly Casey's fault, but that doesnt mean he should shoot 35%
    Agreed.
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  15. #60
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    we messed Andrea up. Let's be real for a second we all know he should of been a 3/4 because he isn't a 5 and he doesn't play like a 3. we should of make him get stronger but also leaner. Done right he could of been more like Gallinari. He doesn't look like he's even in great shape that should be the starting point. But maybe no one was hard on him so he got use to being lazy(That's how he seems to me)

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