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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post

    i'm going to do something i rarely do here - defend Andrea.

    Andrea is not entirely to blame here. the organization tried to change him from the moment they drafted him. if they wanted a rugged forward then it was up to them to not reward him with playing time when he didn't do what they've asked. The only coach who actually did that was summarily dismissed.

    Andrea probably doesn't have a clue what the organization wants from him any more and it stems in my opinion from the very confusing message the organization has given him for 7 plus years.
    Completely agree.
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    I love that we're finding more excuses for this guy's pathetic play (reminder, that I used to be a big fan of this guy). Every year there's a new excuse.
    I'm just saying that Casey setup Bargs to fail this season. Everything is going to sound like an excuse now. Everyone is fed up.
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by aman_13 View Post
    I'm just saying that Casey setup Bargs to fail this season. Everything is going to sound like an excuse now. Everyone is fed up.
    Its front offices fault for not holding BC accountable & not spending into the lux tax.

    Its BC's fault for keeping Andrea around or insisting he starts.

    Its Casey's fault for playing him too many mins, starting him & not holding him accountable (although his mins do seem to be decreasing)

    Its Bargnani's fault for not giving 100% while he's on the court.

    Its the fans fault for supporting this garbage product by showing up to games, buying merchandise & helping their TV ratings.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by aman_13 View Post
    I'm just saying that Casey setup Bargs to fail this season. Everything is going to sound like an excuse now. Everyone is fed up.
    the only thing i'll say in defense of that is that i don't think Casey is playing him this many minutes by choice. i have zero evidence that this is the case, just my hunch.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    the only thing i'll say in defense of that is that i don't think Casey is playing him this many minutes by choice. i have zero evidence that this is the case, just my hunch.
    You could be right.
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tmath View Post
    Its front offices fault for not holding BC accountable & not spending into the lux tax.

    Its BC's fault for keeping Andrea around or insisting he starts.

    Its Casey's fault for playing him too many mins, starting him & not holding him accountable (although his mins do seem to be decreasing)

    Its Bargnani's fault for not giving 100% while he's on the court.

    Its the fans fault for supporting this garbage product by showing up to games, buying merchandise & helping their TV ratings.
    It's BC's and the coaching staff's fault for the reasons Jamie already mentioned.
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  7. #37
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    Lmao no way. Bargnani has struggled his whole career.
    Raptors Franchise Checklist:
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwrighter View Post
    Lmao no way. Bargnani has struggled his whole career.
    I think he has had an up and down career, or at least that is how i would put it. You could argue tho that is essentially the definition of stuggling lol. A lot of us defended this team and hoped for playoff aspirations because of what Andrea did last season. It was a small sample size, but it was a different Andrea. I remember a lot of you defending the Raptors whenever an outside poster laughed at the thought of the team making the playoffs by saying "Andrea was out of half the season".

    I guess i bought into it and was wondering what changed. Why am i seeing the old Andrea again? and why isnt he getting the ball in the same areas as last season? Listening to the podcast yesterday at work, Casey defended Andrea's bad play by saying the team changed the offense. My question is why? and that is the reason i made this thread.
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  9. #39
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    With that said, i'm all for trading him and i'm starting to believe that the coaching staff is phasing him out of the offence because he may be on his way out. However, based on the Bargs hype this off-season, there wasn't really a reason to believe that they were going to change the direction of the team.
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  10. #40
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    asked and answered man. the team changed because they believe they have better players than him.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    asked and answered man. the team changed because they believe they have better players than him.
    And i guess i disagree with that because i still believe Andrea is the most talented player on this team (which is not saying much) or the player that gives the team the best opportunity to win which you agreed with.
    Last edited by aman_13; 12-02-2012 at 08:28 PM.
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by aman_13 View Post
    And i guess i disagree with that because i still believe Andrea is the most talented player on this team (which is not saying much) or the player that gives the team the best opportunity to win which you agreed with.
    well i think maybe you misunderstood what i was saying then. i agreed that it was vital that he be in a position to succeed if we are to be successful. i didn't say that he gives us our best opportunity to win.

    and i think the change in style of play is a clear indication of what the organization thinks - either that Andrea is no longer the man on this team, or they think the style that fits the group is more important than the style that fits Andrea.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by aman_13 View Post
    I think he has had an up and down career, or at least that is how i would put it. You could argue tho that is essentially the definition of stuggling lol. A lot of us defended this team and hoped for playoff aspirations because of what Andrea did last season. It was a small sample size, but it was a different Andrea. I remember a lot of you defending the Raptors whenever an outside poster laughed at the thought of the team making the playoffs by saying "Andrea was out of half the season".

    I guess i bought into it and was wondering what changed. Why am i seeing the old Andrea again? and why isnt he getting the ball in the same areas as last season? Listening to the podcast yesterday at work, Casey defended Andrea's bad play by saying the team changed the offense. My question is why? and that is the reason i made this thread.
    It really boils down to his mental make up. He's struggling because he's weak mentally. He can't adapt, nor wants to.

    I honestly hope that this is Casey's passive aggressive attempt at running Andrea out of town because there is no way this team is going to play well with him on the court. Jose is WAYY more valuable to the team than Dre & I'd rather keep the best backup PG in the L over Bargs.
    Raptors Franchise Checklist:
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwrighter View Post
    It really boils down to his mental make up. He's struggling because he's weak mentally. He can't adapt, nor wants to.

    I honestly hope that this is Casey's passive aggressive attempt at running Andrea out of town because there is no way this team is going to play well with him on the court. Jose is WAYY more valuable to the team than Dre.
    At this point it doesn't matter. Even if Andrea was his 2012 pre injury self I doubt this team contends.

    It wouldn't bother me if everyone on this team except Jonas is gone next year (including the coach and GM). Something needs to change. While Bargs is certainly part of the problem this year, he's far from the only one.

    As of right now, until the Raptors land a top 3 draft pick they are pretty much spinning their wheels.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    well i think maybe you misunderstood what i was saying then. i agreed that it was vital that he be in a position to succeed if we are to be successful. i didn't say that he gives us our best opportunity to win.
    and i think the change in style of play is a clear indication of what the organization thinks - either that Andrea is no longer the man on this team, or they think the style that fits the group is more important than the style that fits Andrea.
    Fair enough, i see what you are saying and i guess there is no point arguing it at this point. The organization is at fault for his development and its time for BC to step up and accept his development for what it is and trade him.
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

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