2012 Winter Meetings Rumors & Discussion (12/2 - 12/6)

[Fukudome]

I'd actually really like to give Bay a look. If he shows anything at all, he'd be an asset at the deadline and if he comes cheap, why not?

[Chi-Town Cubs25]

Barney can not hold a candle to Cabrera...PERIOD! Cut it out!

Are you serious? Sure Cabrera is the better player but not by the drastic amount you're trying to make it out to be. Barney 2.5 WAR +13 runs .287 wOBA. Cabrera 2.9 WAR -9 runs .332 wOBA. Cabrera wins but not by a whole lot.

[KyleJRM]

Oh yeah? Because Valbuena has a career OPS 107 points higher against LHP than RHP. But yes, continue to talk out of your ***.

That's a short-sample size abberation. He's hit significantly better in his much larger sample of minor league at-bats against right-handed pitching.

[Fukudome]

Barney's WAR and value are SEVERELY influenced by his defense. I'm guessing you're using FG WAR numbers? If so, they tend to take defense into account a little more than others. That is a HUGE difference in wOBA.

No one is discounting that Barney is an asset, however, I would have to think a majority would rather have Cabrera, myself included.

[Chi-Town Cubs25]

Barney can not hold a candle to Cabrera...PERIOD! Cut it out!

Barney's WAR and value are SEVERELY influenced by his defense. I'm guessing you're using FG WAR numbers? If so, they tend to take defense into account a little more than others.

No one is discounting that Barney is an asset, however, I would have to think a majority would rather have Cabrera, myself included.

Hence why I said Cabrera is better but he said Barney couldn't hold a candle to Cabrera which is implying he is leaps and bounds better than Barney which just is not true.

[CubRhetoric]

If barney plays SS his defense derived WAR is significantly reduced compared to this years inflated numbers. Cabrera and barney are not as close in value as a casual look at their WARs would make it seem.

[Fukudome]

Okay, but offensively, Cabrera is leaps and bounds better.

Career averages for Cabrera:
.279/.342/.416 with a .153 ISO, .303 BABIP, .333 wOBA, 112 wRC+

Career averages for Barney:
.263/.305/.349 with a .087 ISO, .291 BABIP, .289 wOBA, 76 wRC+

That's a significant difference.

[JBears79]

If barney plays SS his defense derived WAR is significantly reduced compared to this years inflated numbers. Cabrera and barney are not as close in value as a casual look at their WARs would make it seem.

That's why you have to factor in positional value, which IMO is why Cabrera is a better player.

[ABE32]

FWIW, ABE I wasn't insulting you, can't tell if you took it that way just kidding around because I do agree with you that Cabrera is better than Barney. My argument is that looking deeper into some of the advanced stats one could make a case that Barney can provide similar value overall to Cabrera. However, you do need to consider positional value, which is why I believe Cabrera is better.

Oh I know but if you look a few posts up the true HOMERS will come out in packs and defend Barney and they will look past what I said about him playing a lesser position and throw in WAR like the know what they are talking about...I was not directing that at you. I value your post so yeah I know what you were saying. So I will not respond to those guys that like to argue stuff that should not be argued. Like they were comparing Justin Masterson to Travis Wood two weeks ago and then dissapear and come back with Barney is better than Cabrera.

[Rynoplasty]

Barney's WAR and value are SEVERELY influenced by his defense. I'm guessing you're using FG WAR numbers? If so, they tend to take defense into account a little more than others. That is a HUGE difference in wOBA.

No one is discounting that Barney is an asset, however, I would have to think a majority would rather have Cabrera, myself included.

Yeah, FG has him at 2.5 WAR.

If you prefer baseball-reference, well...they have him at 4.6 wins last year. At one point in the season he was the 5th or 6th most valuable player in the league by bWAR.

[Max Power]

Shouldn't people that pretend that Ian Stewart doesn't suck be considered HOMERS too?

[Mell413]

Another thing to keep in mind too is that Barney gets a good amount of value batting 2nd, where he has no business being. That and the shifts influence his defensive numbers. Barney is better defensively, but I think Cabrera could be an above average one at 2B. I'd take Cabrera everytime

[Fukudome]

Yeah, FG has him at 2.5 WAR.

If you prefer baseball-reference, well...they have him at 4.6 wins last year. At one point in the season he was the 5th or 6th most valuable player in the league by bWAR.

Christ, I love defense, but that's a little absurd.

[ABE32]

Shouldn't people that pretend that Ian Stewart doesn't suck be considered HOMERS too?

I don't see anyone on hear that has had some rational thought about Stewart being a good player again based on his wrist issues. However Stewart does not generate the defense of this magnitude because we don't see him as a CUB we see him as a player we traded two of our PRIZED PROSPECTS FOR. SO he gets a lot of hate for that alone and those people crying about losing DJ and Colvin yeah I call them HOMERS.


Next Week we will see same guy come back and say Soriano is on Par with Justin Upton because he had a nice year last year.

[petrey10]

What guys u talking?

all FA.... everyone is saying, " OVERPAY... OVERPAY...OVERPAY.."


Eventually when everyone is getting overpaid it becomes the average!!!! I think some of you look at past contracts and don't realize how much payrolls are inflating the last 4 or 5 years.