3 teams looking to meet with Mets on Dickey-Rubin post #918

[GoBraves]

I'm thinking Myers plus another for Dickey. If the bidding is competitive, there's no reason to sell short. Dickey is an established winner, an ace. And he's apparently not looking for crazy money. He's got at least 1000 innings left in his arm; he's worth more than just one prospect, even if it is the BA Minor League Player of the Year. I think it is imperative the Mets potentially fill 2 holes at the MLB level if they dealt Dickey. Otherwise...not dealin' him.

So why not keep him yourself and extend him? If as most of you guys believe, the Mets are ready to compete in 2014, wouldn't it make sense to keep him? He is affordable.

I'm surprised that you are jumping for joy at the prospect of getting rid of this "Ace" for prospect/s at the same time you make the case that he's a proven, affordable, legitimate front of the rotation guy. It is rather unusual to trade such commodity in baseball. Specially when they're affordable! What gives?

If your answer is, well, he is a late blooming, unconventional knuckleballer who is 38 years old. And I would never trade Niese, Harvey or Wheeler if they had such year as Dickey for prospects. Well then, is it possible other teams are thinking just like you?

[metswon69]

So why not keep him yourself and extend him? If as most of you guys believe, the Mets are ready to compete in 2014, wouldn't it make sense to keep him? He is affordable.

It is as if even you guys are convinced an unproven prospect is worth more than your affordable ace. I bet if Niese or Wheeler or Harvey had the numbers as this 38 year old, late blooming knuckel baller and won the Cy young, you would be laughing at the thought of trading any of them for an unproven minor league prospect with a high ceiling. Unfortunately other teams think the same way as you do.

I'm surprised that you are jumping for joy at the prospect of getting rid of this "Ace" for prospects at the same time you make the case that he's a proven, affordable, legitimate front of the rotation guy. It is rather unusual to trade such commodity in baseball. Specially when they're affordable! What gives?

The Mets are in a rebuilding phase and SP is not at the forefront of our more major issues.

They need to fill holes and if they could get an Olt and Leonys Martin from the Rangers for example Dickey can help fill those holes.

If he can't get us that type of haul, they'll re-sign him.

Sandy Alderson is just gauging the market to see what kind of return the reigning Cy Young winner can give us. That's what GMs with teams in a rebuilding phase look to do with their best players.

They are trying to trade from a position of strength.

Ultimately, the Mets are just trying to play all their cards and see what their best available option is.

[GoBraves]

The Mets are in a rebuilding phase and SP is not at the forefront of our more major issues.

They need to fill holes and if they could get an Olt and Leonys Martin from the Rangers for example Dickey can help fill those holes.

If he can't get us that type of haul, they'll re-sign him.

Sandy Alderson is just gauging the market to see what kind of return the reigning Cy Young winner can give us. That's what GMs with teams in a rebuilding phase look to do with their best players.

They are trying to trade from a position of strength.

Ultimately, the Mets are just trying to play all their cards and see what their best available option is.

Thanks for the reply. I get your point. But you are not officially rebuilding. You just signed Wright to a huge deal and you indicate you're ready to compete in a year.

Wouldn't Dickey help in 2014 if you are competing by then? Also, pitching is not "yet" the Mets' strength area. You lose Dickey, you're definitely not competing in 2014 without a major addition to your rotation. yes, I'm aware of Harvey and Niese. you need more and an entire bullpen, no?

[GoBraves]

The Mets are in a rebuilding phase and SP is not at the forefront of our more major issues.

They need to fill holes and if they could get an Olt and Leonys Martin from the Rangers for example Dickey can help fill those holes.

If he can't get us that type of haul, they'll re-sign him.

Sandy Alderson is just gauging the market to see what kind of return the reigning Cy Young winner can give us. That's what GMs with teams in a rebuilding phase look to do with their best players.

They are trying to trade from a position of strength.

Ultimately, the Mets are just trying to play all their cards and see what their best available option is.

Olt can be had as they just offered him to the Braves for Anderlton Simmons. Braves refused. They were looking to flip him for Justin Upton.

I would still keep Dickey, especially if you're close to competing.

[metswon69]

Thanks for the reply. I get your point. But you are not officially rebuilding. You just signed Wright to a huge deal and you indicate you're ready to compete in a year.

Wouldn't Dickey help in 2014 if you are competing by then? Also, pitching is not "yet" the Mets' strength area. You lose Dickey, you're definitely not competing in 2014 without a major addition to your rotation. yes, I'm aware of Harvey and Niese. you need more and an entire bullpen, no?

The Mets have quite of number of projectable minor league starting pitchers and Wright was more of a move that transcended "competing".

Don't get me wrong they would like to compete with him sooner than later but it was very important to the fan base to bring back the face of the franchise.

Wright was one of the best 3rd baseman in the majors last year and it would be hard to find a 3rd baseman of that caliber (that's in part why they kept him as well) He will also have value down the road if they decide to move him to a different position.

You also forgot to mention Wheeler, he is a top 10 spec in baseball and apparently all the scouts love his ability and potential. Although the Mets would be going young in the rotation with no guarantees, they seem to have a hold on SP.

A rotation of Wheeler, Harvey, Gee, Niese and then whoever else can certainly be formidable.

With the bullpen, the Mets will look to piece that together. They have some good young arms in Edgin, Familia, Mejia, Parnell that can get the job done. If they add in some veteran depth they could put together potentially a very good pen. Pens are very finicky because most relievers (aside from the exceptional ones) are bipolar.

The bullpen they could fix internally as well with the pitching in their minor league system but mainly bullpen arms are plentiful and not hard to acquire.

[metswon69]

The Mets have arms...

Some further down the line than others but they have guys like Rafael Montero, Domingo Tapia, Michael Fulmer, Jeurrys Familia, Jenrry Mejia (the latter two already both in the majors), etc etc.

Just look at the entire rotation in Brooklyn.

Those guys are further away but they can also be used as trade bait if the Mets need to fill other needs.

[MetsLegacy]

I've been on Twitter almost non-stop since last Thursday when things started to get really heated about the Dickey discussions. Here's what I can gather through all of the buzz (not that it's anything more informative than what has been published, but based on past decisions and the current happenings these are just my opinions):

1.) The Mets have talked/are talking to roughly 8/9 teams about Dickey. Grienke and Sanchez are both on the open market waiting to sign and when they sign, the market will be established for Dickey's trade value.

2.) The Mets truly want to keep Dickey, but don't want to offer an extension just yet because of the possibility of something coming to them in form of a trade. I believe that unless they're blown away with a superstar prospect or 2-3 players who could contribute at the major league level in 2013 that they'll hold onto Dickey.

3.) The 3-45 and 2-26 contract figures are in the right neighborhood, but I believe that IF he remains in New York he'll probably settle for something around 2 years for $28M with a 3rd year option for $15M, and incentives for the 2 year deal based on Cy Young voting, innings pitched, and other award based figures.

That said, I think Dickey will stay in New York. It's a very uneasy time to check the news and see so many conflicting reports about them leaning towards keeping Dickey, to Dickey being shipped to Texas or Kansas City...but if they're not biting now and they're already not in on a top FA pitcher, I can't see them giving up anything significant in a few days. Alderson wants 2-3 pieces and I don't think Texas will offer Mike Olt + other pieces, and Andrus or Profar aren't really in the question. For Kansas City the obvious choice would be Wil Myers, but I think the Mets would have to add to that deal and I can't see that happening. The Royals are unwilling to part ways with Butler, Gordon, Perez, or any significant major league pieces and therefore I don't see that changing since their money situation isn't fantastic either.

I COULD see Toronto swiping him up, but I'll be extremely frustrated if the return is Arencibia as the main piece. I don't think Alderson would pull the trigger on that, either.

Baltimore? Possible. Angels? Could be a surprise contender for Dickey if they feel desperate.

The talk is becoming more grand and grand that it seems like there has been an artificial bubble created. Like most economic bubbles, I think this one will burst soon before Dickey can be moved for a big crop.

[GoBraves]

The Mets have quite of number of projectable minor league starting pitchers and Wright was more of a move that transcended "competing".

Don't get me wrong they would like to compete with him sooner than later but it was very important to the fan base to bring back the face of the franchise.

Wright was one of the best 3rd baseman in the majors last year and it would be hard to find a 3rd baseman of that caliber (that's in part why they kept him as well) He will also have value down the road if they decide to move him to a different position.

You also forgot to mention Wheeler, he is a top 10 spec in baseball and apparently all the scouts love his ability and potential. Although the Mets would be going young in the rotation with no guarantees, they seem to have a hold on SP.

A rotation of Wheeler, Harvey, Gee, Niese and then whoever else can certainly be formidable.

With the bullpen, the Mets will look to piece that together. They have some good young arms in Edgin, Familia, Mejia, Parnell that can get the job done. If they add in some veteran depth they could put together potentially a very good pen. Pens are very finicky because most relievers (aside from the exceptional ones) are bipolar.

The bullpen they could fix internally as well with the pitching in their minor league system but mainly bullpen arms are plentiful and not hard to acquire.

I completely understand the Wright signing and I thought/think it was a great idea. The Mets had to sign him. I just think you need to get more pieces around him to compete. I disagree with trading your best pitcher, thats all. But I'm a Braves fan so pitching has always been and still is the Braves' #1 priority. I'm a little biased towards pitching.

[metswon69]

I completely understand the Wright signing and I thought/think it was a great idea. The Mets had to sign him. I just think you need to get more pieces around him to compete. I disagree with trading your best pitcher, thats all. But I'm a Braves fan so pitching has always been and still is the Braves' #1 priority. I'm a little biased towards pitching.

Fair enough, and you could be right about the young rotation.

But Harvey has lights out stuff and so does Wheeler.

I think the Mets found 2 top of the rotation guys for many years to come. Niese is a very good 3rd SP and the peripherals (and advanced stats) had Gee as even better than Niese last season.

It's a high risk/high reward type situation but the Mets seem to have made it their business to go younger and if Dickey can get us an Olt and Leonys Martin or Martin Perez i think the Mets will pull the trigger.

If not, they will ride the Dickey train as long as they possibly can.

Honestly picking up those two pieces, if they could hypothetically get them, would in my mind makes us competitors in 2014 (especially if they can straighten out the pen)

And that's another part of it too, trading Dickey would give the Mets more financial flexibility to fix other holes on this team (the bullpen, the catchers spot, another OF)

[Claymation]

DKnobler ‏@DKnobler
One Mets person said still 50-50 whether they trade or sign R.A. Dickey. Sounds like they're not impressed with offers so far.

[acerimusdux]

If your answer is, well, he is a late blooming, unconventional knuckleballer who is 38 years old. And I would never trade Niese, Harvey or Wheeler if they had such year as Dickey for prospects. Well then, is it possible other teams are thinking just like you?

Actually, I think many (most?) of us would prefer they trade Niese. The organization seems more inclined to trade Dickey though (which certainly suggests money is part of the issue.)

But either way, the Mets have 5 good SP under control next year (Dickey, Harvey, Niese, Santana, Gee) with several more at AAA about ready for MLB (Wheeler, Mejia, McHugh). And they have no MLB quality outfielders. Again, most of us would prefer they keep the pitching, and just go out and sign Josh Hamilton, but we can see that isn't happening either, and the organization seems reluctant to spend on even the likes of Shane Victorino.

So the best chance they have to compete anytime soon is to trade a SP for a quality outfielder. Gee is coming off an injury, so probably won't get fair value unless they wait until the deadline at least. Santana can block any trade and has an untradeable contract. And it doesn't make sense at this stage to deal the prospects. Dickey should be good for 3-4 years, but Harvey and Wheeler could be good for 6 years, at much lower cost. That leaves Dickey or Niese.

[YoungStuna]

Na I'd rather deal Dickey than Niese due to age and contract. Having a 26 year old lefty that is a guarenteed #3 for well below market value(compared to what pitchers are getting now) is great value for us now and long term. It will be difficult to replace Dickey though short term so I'm conflicted.

[Sick Of It All]

I rather keep both, but again if you could get two top prospects from a team, you have to make the deal.

[acerimusdux]

The dollar difference between the two over the next 4 years will probably run around $20M. So if a win is worth near to $5M, then Dickey needs to be better by about 1 WAR per year to be worth the higher price.

I just think Dickey is better than Niese by at least 10 runs a year, even accounting for aging. Over the last 3 years, using Runs above average, from Baseball-Reference, computed from RA9 adjusted for the park, opponent, and defense, Dickey has been better than Niese by 33 runs, 24 runs, and 17 runs. So if you are taking Niese, you are definitely betting that those results get closer as Dickey ages.

Or to keep it simple, in terms of RA9 or ERA, is Dickey going to be better by 0.45 runs over the course of his deal? Lets assume he gets a three year extension. I think it's close enough to debate.

[I<3ourProspects]

yeah I rather keep nisse too cuz of the same reason u stated stuna, and also once we lose santana, niese will be our only legit lefty I know of in our farm and roster. Sure wish the reds were in on the dickey race, I'd love to get billy hamilton their SS prospect, he had more sb's (155) last year than every team in the mlb but 1.