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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampirate View Post
    38 year old knuckleballer going from the NL East to the Al East has alot of warning signs on him.
    If the price is right (which in my opinion is Colby Rasmus, JP Arencibia, and Deck McGuire for Dickey and Jeurys Familia) then I'd totally love to see Dickey play here. He isn't just any pitcher from the veteran NL, he's the Cy Young winner. I think he'd be able to handle himself in the American League.

    It's also not like the entire team would live and die with Dickey's success' or failures either with the new top depth at the top of the Blue Jays rotation.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtf View Post
    If the price is right (which in my opinion is Colby Rasmus, JP Arencibia, and Deck McGuire for Dickey and Jeurys Familia) then I'd totally love to see Dickey play here. He isn't just any pitcher from the veteran NL, he's the Cy Young winner. I think he'd be able to handle himself in the American League.

    It's also not like the entire team would live and die with Dickey's success' or failures either with the new top depth at the top of the Blue Jays rotation.
    No. I hate Dickey. When you make a big trade like that, you want a guy who's a sure thing.

    When a pitcher has pitched 1059.2 innings in his career, and has built up a career WAR of 12.0, and 10.0 of that WAR has come strictly in his last 3 seasons from the ages 35-38, that clearly indicates stay away. To add on top of that, just LAST YEAR, his peripherals were extremely high.

    Guys, this is a career 4.23 FIP, and 4.11 xFIP pitcher who just had his FIRST SEASON with a FIP of less then 3.65 and an xFIP of less than 3.75! He's a career 4-5 K/9 guy because he knuckles so much and BOOM all of a sudden last year he jumps to 8.86 K/9. Do you understand how ridiculous that is? That is a perfect sign of fluke season.

    The worst part is his HR/9 went up, and his GB% went down. He was pitching to K guys last year, and his career #s show that he isn't capable of maintaining this.

    There is absolutely no way I touch RA Dickey, even if it includes Rasmus and Arencibia + lesser specs. Rasmus and Arencibia aren't just throw away assets. We've spent years of attaining these aspects so we're rich in commodity, we shouldn't just waste it away for such a risk like RA.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by TO Rapz View Post
    Reason being, at this point in their respective careers, I'd much rather pay the price to get Niese then get Dickey.
    Yea, it wasn't a knock on you at all. This is finally a fair deal suggestion for JPA and people aren't even discussing it.

    Im not on a pedestal derozan. I've just been in this forum long enough to hear some of thecrazy iideas thrown around when we've had the slightest glimpse of success. I remember the things repeated after the Burnett signing. "Sign Zito, MullderI am sure some of the older guys can remember more

    Unless you're getting a proven superstar back, like a Felix Hernandez, it would be highly unwise for AA to wager the farm all in one season, especially for some of the deals mentioned. We don't even know howthis roster is gonna play out.

    Jays '13

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by TO Rapz View Post
    No. I hate Dickey. When you make a big trade like that, you want a guy who's a sure thing.

    When a pitcher has pitched 1059.2 innings in his career, and has built up a career WAR of 12.0, and 10.0 of that WAR has come strictly in his last 3 seasons from the ages 35-38, that clearly indicates stay away. To add on top of that, just LAST YEAR, his peripherals were extremely high.

    Guys, this is a career 4.23 FIP, and 4.11 xFIP pitcher who just had his FIRST SEASON with a FIP of less then 3.65 and an xFIP of less than 3.75! He's a career 4-5 K/9 guy because he knuckles so much and BOOM all of a sudden last year he jumps to 8.86 K/9. Do you understand how ridiculous that is? That is a perfect sign of fluke season.

    The worst part is his HR/9 went up, and his GB% went down. He was pitching to K guys last year, and his career #s show that he isn't capable of maintaining this.

    There is absolutely no way I touch RA Dickey, even if it includes Rasmus and Arencibia + lesser specs. Rasmus and Arencibia aren't just throw away assets. We've spent years of attaining these aspects so we're rich in commodity, we shouldn't just waste it away for such a risk like RA.
    Yeah, it's really easy to use his career numbers when trying to say that he's bad. He wasn't even a knuckleballer for all of his career so it's pretty ridiculous just to cherry pick numbers. If you look at his past 3 seasons, the numbers are pretty good.

    2010: 2.84 ERA, 3.65 FIP, 3.75 xFIP
    2011: 3.28 ERA, 3.77 FIP, 3.95 xFIP
    2012: 2.73 ERA, 3.27 FIP, 3.27 xFIP

    My proposal of Rasmus, Arencibia and McGuire for Dickey and Familia isn't exactly giving away assets for nothing as you'd have us believe. I recognize their trade value, and I'm not suggesting they're being thrown away for nothing, but it compares pretty well with Dickey's trade value given his high performance relative to his age and contract status. It would also fit the needs of both teams pretty well.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by TO Rapz View Post
    No. I hate Dickey. When you make a big trade like that, you want a guy who's a sure thing.

    When a pitcher has pitched 1059.2 innings in his career, and has built up a career WAR of 12.0, and 10.0 of that WAR has come strictly in his last 3 seasons from the ages 35-38, that clearly indicates stay away. To add on top of that, just LAST YEAR, his peripherals were extremely high.

    Guys, this is a career 4.23 FIP, and 4.11 xFIP pitcher who just had his FIRST SEASON with a FIP of less then 3.65 and an xFIP of less than 3.75! He's a career 4-5 K/9 guy because he knuckles so much and BOOM all of a sudden last year he jumps to 8.86 K/9. Do you understand how ridiculous that is? That is a perfect sign of fluke season.

    The worst part is his HR/9 went up, and his GB% went down. He was pitching to K guys last year, and his career #s show that he isn't capable of maintaining this.

    There is absolutely no way I touch RA Dickey, even if it includes Rasmus and Arencibia + lesser specs. Rasmus and Arencibia aren't just throw away assets. We've spent years of attaining these aspects so we're rich in commodity, we shouldn't just waste it away for such a risk like RA.
    Well for both I agree, but if all we are trading is JUST Arencibia then the risk for a year or 2 might be worth it. So far, all JPA has estalished is that he has power, that's it. I don't care, a .275 OBP is ATROCIOUS.

    I'd be willing to give all our hitters one more chance though, yes even lind and see if Mollota can turn them around. But, i'd be willing to deal them in a heartbeat if the right deal came along.

    RA Dickey as our 5th pitcher for JPA straight up might be worth it.

    Of course, this is never going to happen.

  6. #81
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    I think those trades are seriously underestimating what it will actually take to get Dickey.


    The Brilliant Plan of How to Get Andrew Wiggins in a Toronto Uniform
    Quote Originally Posted by deaner View Post
    All I'm saying is the league wants to see Toronto succeeded. An outside chance Silver could say to philly... You know... That's a great trade offer from Toronto for the first pick. It's up to you but we'd love to see wiggins in Toronto.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by lajoie View Post
    i think those trades are seriously underestimating what it will actually take to get dickey.
    +1

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by lajoie View Post
    I think those trades are seriously underestimating what it will actually take to get Dickey.
    It's easy to criticize an opinion without offering anything of your own to counter it with, so I commend you for being so brave.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtf View Post
    It's easy to criticize an opinion without offering anything of your own to counter it with, so I commend you for being so brave.
    if youre going to trade JPA for him, Gose and a lesser spec thats better than mcguire have to be included IMO.

  10. #85
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    Kevin Burkhardt ‏@KBurkhardtSNY

    From what I've heard, Mets top priority is an OF, an Dickey and Niese are very much the bait to get one.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtf View Post
    It's easy to criticize an opinion without offering anything of your own to counter it with, so I commend you for being so brave.
    Okay, fine. How about the Jays trade Syndergaard and Anthony Gose for RA Dickey? Happier now?


    The Brilliant Plan of How to Get Andrew Wiggins in a Toronto Uniform
    Quote Originally Posted by deaner View Post
    All I'm saying is the league wants to see Toronto succeeded. An outside chance Silver could say to philly... You know... That's a great trade offer from Toronto for the first pick. It's up to you but we'd love to see wiggins in Toronto.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by TO Rapz View Post
    No. I hate Dickey. When you make a big trade like that, you want a guy who's a sure thing.

    When a pitcher has pitched 1059.2 innings in his career, and has built up a career WAR of 12.0, and 10.0 of that WAR has come strictly in his last 3 seasons from the ages 35-38, that clearly indicates stay away. To add on top of that, just LAST YEAR, his peripherals were extremely high.

    Guys, this is a career 4.23 FIP, and 4.11 xFIP pitcher who just had his FIRST SEASON with a FIP of less then 3.65 and an xFIP of less than 3.75! He's a career 4-5 K/9 guy because he knuckles so much and BOOM all of a sudden last year he jumps to 8.86 K/9. Do you understand how ridiculous that is? That is a perfect sign of fluke season.

    The worst part is his HR/9 went up, and his GB% went down. He was pitching to K guys last year, and his career #s show that he isn't capable of maintaining this.

    There is absolutely no way I touch RA Dickey, even if it includes Rasmus and Arencibia + lesser specs. Rasmus and Arencibia aren't just throw away assets. We've spent years of attaining these aspects so we're rich in commodity, we shouldn't just waste it away for such a risk like RA.
    That is ridiculous...

    Who cares what he's done over this career? you aren't trading for normal RA Dickey who couldn't cut it in the major leagues with his mediocre stuff, you are trading for the kunckleballing RA dickey who's knuckleball continues to improve with each successive season.

    You can safely disregard all of his career numbers up to 3 years ago and if you do that, you see that he is a very good pitcher that has been improving from year to year until finally achieving CY Young form last year with the perfection of his knuckleball

    That is what explains his great peripherals and his sudden rise in strikeouts

    props to vick27m

    "Art was my first major in college but it was too hard, so I majored in math"
    Ron Artest

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by lajoie View Post
    Let's be real here. He didn't have the greatest year in his first full season He has loads of potential, but let's face it, it's not like he played like Mike Trout or Buster Posey.
    if there are talks of future MVP-type seasons surrounding Lawrie even as little as it sounds, in the media, I don't think Lawrie will be traded. Great 3rd basemens are just as hard to find as ace pitchers in this league.



  14. #89
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    Dickey is a tough one to evaluate since I don't think there has been a case where a guy got amazingly good in their mid 30s when 95% of players are on the decline...its hard to predict how long Dickey has left -- could be a year, two, five. Being a knuckleballer, he doesn't have the stress on his arm like 99% of other pitchers.

    Its so hard to say what's fair value to a guy like Dickey. Do you trade the farm for a guy who is 37 but a Cy Young winner who found his way finally? So on the fence with him...if its a fair package I would consider it...what's fair for this unprecedented case is up in the air...

  15. #90
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    Truthfully, even if they cost the exact the same, I would rather have Niese than Dickey. That said, Dickey is obviously going to cost a lot more, which I think should just make the choice even more clear. I have serious concerns about Dickey maintaining his success, especially in the AL. Plus, Niese is young and controllable. Could the Mets bite on something centred around JPA and Sierra? That could plug 2 holes for them.

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