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  1. #1
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    Rosenthal: Arencibia offered in packages for Jon Niese and Wade Davis

    Will Jays deal catcher, add pitcher?
    0 minutes ago by KenRosenthal

    While the Toronto Blue Jays are open to trading any of their three catchers, there is, well, a catch.

    “None is cheap,” a rival executive says, referring to the acquisition cost in a trade, not the players’ salaries.

    The Jays non-tendered Bobby Wilson on Friday night, leaving J.P. Arencibia, John Buck and Travis D’Arnaud as the remaining catchers on their 40-man roster.

    Arencibia, 26, is the most likely to be moved – and the Jays previously have talked about him in trades for pitchers such as Tampa Bay Rays right-hander Wade Davis and New York Mets left-hander Jon Niese, major-league sources say.

    The Jays might need to offer more than Arencibia to acquire such a pitcher, but aren’t necessarily eager to make that type of move. Arencibia is still a year away from arbitration, and the Jays control him for four more years.

    D’Arnaud, the team’s top catching prospect, did not play after June 25 last season due to a knee injury. Buck, 32, batted .192 with a .644 OPS for the Miami Marlins last season.

    As for starting pitching, it’s true that the Jays would like to find more even after acquiring right-hander Josh Johnson and lefty Mark Buehrle in their blockbuster with the Marlins.

    The team, however, seems more inclined to add depth than find an upgrade over its fifth starter, lefty J.A. Happ, sources say.

    Thus, the Jays could look to sign a low-end free agent as well as minor-league free agents, ensuring that they are better protected against injuries than they were last season.

    -Ken Rosenthal
    http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/m...?new_post=true

  2. #2
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    I'd do Niese for JPA but not Wade Davis for JPA. Wade Davis is not better then J.A. Happ. I'd slot in Happ 5th in our rotation over Davis and for all of JPA's faults i'd easily take him over Buck as the starting catcher..and make no mistake it would be Buck that would start the season off as the starting catcher and not TDA.

  3. #3
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    Wonder what else they were asking for to get Niese.
    2013

  4. #4
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    I'd rather add to JPA and go for Dickey... the dude won the Cy Young and the Mets don't seem to be asking the world for him

    props to vick27m

    "Art was my first major in college but it was too hard, so I majored in math"
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    Quote Originally Posted by bomber0104 View Post
    I'd rather add to JPA and go for Dickey... the dude won the Cy Young and the Mets don't seem to be asking the world for him
    Don't know what you've been reading but the stuff I've read all says they want a huge offer to move him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_jon View Post
    Don't know what you've been reading but the stuff I've read all says they want a huge offer to move him.
    they dont seem to be agreeing on the extension and if that continues to be the case, they will probably choose to deal him now rather than at the deadline

    props to vick27m

    "Art was my first major in college but it was too hard, so I majored in math"
    Ron Artest

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    Quote Originally Posted by bomber0104 View Post
    they dont seem to be agreeing on the extension and if that continues to be the case, they will probably choose to deal him now rather than at the deadline
    Doesn't mean their not asking a huge amount for him as they should be


    The Brilliant Plan of How to Get Andrew Wiggins in a Toronto Uniform
    Quote Originally Posted by deaner View Post
    All I'm saying is the league wants to see Toronto succeeded. An outside chance Silver could say to philly... You know... That's a great trade offer from Toronto for the first pick. It's up to you but we'd love to see wiggins in Toronto.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by lajoie View Post
    Doesn't mean their not asking a huge amount for him as they should be
    yeah but having him on the last year of his contract reduces his value not to mention that the Mets understand that he isn't exactly your typical CY Young winner..

    Just my opinion.. who knows

    props to vick27m

    "Art was my first major in college but it was too hard, so I majored in math"
    Ron Artest

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bomber0104 View Post
    I'd rather add to JPA and go for Dickey... the dude won the Cy Young and the Mets don't seem to be asking the world for him
    Dickey would be better for next year but Niese is under team control for 5 more years at 5-6 million a season. He could be a good 3rd or great 4th stater for years. Dickey is still somewhat of a hit or miss to me even with the Cy Young. As for Davis no thanks unless there's more to the deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bomber0104 View Post
    I'd rather add to JPA and go for Dickey... the dude won the Cy Young and the Mets don't seem to be asking the world for him
    38 year old knuckleballer going from the NL East to the Al East has alot of warning signs on him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampirate View Post
    38 year old knuckleballer going from the NL East to the Al East has alot of warning signs on him.
    If the price is right (which in my opinion is Colby Rasmus, JP Arencibia, and Deck McGuire for Dickey and Jeurys Familia) then I'd totally love to see Dickey play here. He isn't just any pitcher from the veteran NL, he's the Cy Young winner. I think he'd be able to handle himself in the American League.

    It's also not like the entire team would live and die with Dickey's success' or failures either with the new top depth at the top of the Blue Jays rotation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtf View Post
    If the price is right (which in my opinion is Colby Rasmus, JP Arencibia, and Deck McGuire for Dickey and Jeurys Familia) then I'd totally love to see Dickey play here. He isn't just any pitcher from the veteran NL, he's the Cy Young winner. I think he'd be able to handle himself in the American League.

    It's also not like the entire team would live and die with Dickey's success' or failures either with the new top depth at the top of the Blue Jays rotation.
    No. I hate Dickey. When you make a big trade like that, you want a guy who's a sure thing.

    When a pitcher has pitched 1059.2 innings in his career, and has built up a career WAR of 12.0, and 10.0 of that WAR has come strictly in his last 3 seasons from the ages 35-38, that clearly indicates stay away. To add on top of that, just LAST YEAR, his peripherals were extremely high.

    Guys, this is a career 4.23 FIP, and 4.11 xFIP pitcher who just had his FIRST SEASON with a FIP of less then 3.65 and an xFIP of less than 3.75! He's a career 4-5 K/9 guy because he knuckles so much and BOOM all of a sudden last year he jumps to 8.86 K/9. Do you understand how ridiculous that is? That is a perfect sign of fluke season.

    The worst part is his HR/9 went up, and his GB% went down. He was pitching to K guys last year, and his career #s show that he isn't capable of maintaining this.

    There is absolutely no way I touch RA Dickey, even if it includes Rasmus and Arencibia + lesser specs. Rasmus and Arencibia aren't just throw away assets. We've spent years of attaining these aspects so we're rich in commodity, we shouldn't just waste it away for such a risk like RA.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TO Rapz View Post
    No. I hate Dickey. When you make a big trade like that, you want a guy who's a sure thing.

    When a pitcher has pitched 1059.2 innings in his career, and has built up a career WAR of 12.0, and 10.0 of that WAR has come strictly in his last 3 seasons from the ages 35-38, that clearly indicates stay away. To add on top of that, just LAST YEAR, his peripherals were extremely high.

    Guys, this is a career 4.23 FIP, and 4.11 xFIP pitcher who just had his FIRST SEASON with a FIP of less then 3.65 and an xFIP of less than 3.75! He's a career 4-5 K/9 guy because he knuckles so much and BOOM all of a sudden last year he jumps to 8.86 K/9. Do you understand how ridiculous that is? That is a perfect sign of fluke season.

    The worst part is his HR/9 went up, and his GB% went down. He was pitching to K guys last year, and his career #s show that he isn't capable of maintaining this.

    There is absolutely no way I touch RA Dickey, even if it includes Rasmus and Arencibia + lesser specs. Rasmus and Arencibia aren't just throw away assets. We've spent years of attaining these aspects so we're rich in commodity, we shouldn't just waste it away for such a risk like RA.
    Yeah, it's really easy to use his career numbers when trying to say that he's bad. He wasn't even a knuckleballer for all of his career so it's pretty ridiculous just to cherry pick numbers. If you look at his past 3 seasons, the numbers are pretty good.

    2010: 2.84 ERA, 3.65 FIP, 3.75 xFIP
    2011: 3.28 ERA, 3.77 FIP, 3.95 xFIP
    2012: 2.73 ERA, 3.27 FIP, 3.27 xFIP

    My proposal of Rasmus, Arencibia and McGuire for Dickey and Familia isn't exactly giving away assets for nothing as you'd have us believe. I recognize their trade value, and I'm not suggesting they're being thrown away for nothing, but it compares pretty well with Dickey's trade value given his high performance relative to his age and contract status. It would also fit the needs of both teams pretty well.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TO Rapz View Post
    No. I hate Dickey. When you make a big trade like that, you want a guy who's a sure thing.

    When a pitcher has pitched 1059.2 innings in his career, and has built up a career WAR of 12.0, and 10.0 of that WAR has come strictly in his last 3 seasons from the ages 35-38, that clearly indicates stay away. To add on top of that, just LAST YEAR, his peripherals were extremely high.

    Guys, this is a career 4.23 FIP, and 4.11 xFIP pitcher who just had his FIRST SEASON with a FIP of less then 3.65 and an xFIP of less than 3.75! He's a career 4-5 K/9 guy because he knuckles so much and BOOM all of a sudden last year he jumps to 8.86 K/9. Do you understand how ridiculous that is? That is a perfect sign of fluke season.

    The worst part is his HR/9 went up, and his GB% went down. He was pitching to K guys last year, and his career #s show that he isn't capable of maintaining this.

    There is absolutely no way I touch RA Dickey, even if it includes Rasmus and Arencibia + lesser specs. Rasmus and Arencibia aren't just throw away assets. We've spent years of attaining these aspects so we're rich in commodity, we shouldn't just waste it away for such a risk like RA.
    Well for both I agree, but if all we are trading is JUST Arencibia then the risk for a year or 2 might be worth it. So far, all JPA has estalished is that he has power, that's it. I don't care, a .275 OBP is ATROCIOUS.

    I'd be willing to give all our hitters one more chance though, yes even lind and see if Mollota can turn them around. But, i'd be willing to deal them in a heartbeat if the right deal came along.

    RA Dickey as our 5th pitcher for JPA straight up might be worth it.

    Of course, this is never going to happen.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TO Rapz View Post
    No. I hate Dickey. When you make a big trade like that, you want a guy who's a sure thing.

    When a pitcher has pitched 1059.2 innings in his career, and has built up a career WAR of 12.0, and 10.0 of that WAR has come strictly in his last 3 seasons from the ages 35-38, that clearly indicates stay away. To add on top of that, just LAST YEAR, his peripherals were extremely high.

    Guys, this is a career 4.23 FIP, and 4.11 xFIP pitcher who just had his FIRST SEASON with a FIP of less then 3.65 and an xFIP of less than 3.75! He's a career 4-5 K/9 guy because he knuckles so much and BOOM all of a sudden last year he jumps to 8.86 K/9. Do you understand how ridiculous that is? That is a perfect sign of fluke season.

    The worst part is his HR/9 went up, and his GB% went down. He was pitching to K guys last year, and his career #s show that he isn't capable of maintaining this.

    There is absolutely no way I touch RA Dickey, even if it includes Rasmus and Arencibia + lesser specs. Rasmus and Arencibia aren't just throw away assets. We've spent years of attaining these aspects so we're rich in commodity, we shouldn't just waste it away for such a risk like RA.
    That is ridiculous...

    Who cares what he's done over this career? you aren't trading for normal RA Dickey who couldn't cut it in the major leagues with his mediocre stuff, you are trading for the kunckleballing RA dickey who's knuckleball continues to improve with each successive season.

    You can safely disregard all of his career numbers up to 3 years ago and if you do that, you see that he is a very good pitcher that has been improving from year to year until finally achieving CY Young form last year with the perfection of his knuckleball

    That is what explains his great peripherals and his sudden rise in strikeouts

    props to vick27m

    "Art was my first major in college but it was too hard, so I majored in math"
    Ron Artest

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