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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaughan333 View Post
    Zobrist had an arguably better offensive season than Either last year...how is that disappearing if you think he is so good?
    He did have a better offensive season than Ethier....again.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Sickels seems to think so at least

    http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/...pects-for-2013

    Every site sees him as a top 5 overall prospect in baseball.



    Yup, sort of. But the Rays still have additional cogs that are very good. Jennings is still coming along, Joyce is the same thing as Ethier, and Zobrist is a ridiculously good, secret weapon.
    And then they always have random guys like Jeff Keppinger come and have career years there.


    It's certainly strong. But I don't think it would actually help the Rays enough to move him.
    don't get me wrong I like him, but i like will meyers as a hitter, and castalanos, and profar more and maybe even D'Aunard due to positional value.

    The secret on zobrist has been out for a while lol,

    I don't believe in absolutes like always and never, they will eventually not have random guys having career years, for the sake i hope they have a really good team to make up for it.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    He did have a better offensive season than Ethier....again.
    But that is disappearing i guess? haha


    I don't think Either gets 6 years guaranteed at 17 per (he got more than I thought he did). He is older than BJ Upton and plays worse defense/less valuable defensive position. He has also been a worse player the last few years than BJ Upton. In addition, with upton I think some of that price is still going to the hope that he continues to Develop to that potential he was once thought to have.
    Last edited by gaughan333; 12-03-2012 at 11:33 PM.
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  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaughan333 View Post
    Zobrist had an arguably better offensive season than Either last year...how is that disappearing if you think he is so good?
    i never said he was without value, but his impact disappears or can mitagated when Longoria is out, and loosing BJ upton makes it even more vital that longoria stays healthy, it wasn't as much of a knock on zobrist or anyone else as much as it was a statement on how valuable Longoria is.

  5. #185
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    How does losing Longoria change the impact of Zobrist? What do you mean by mitigated
    Save the kittens, ignore sbs' posts
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  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaughan333 View Post
    But that is disappearing i guess? haha


    I don't think Either gets 6 years guaranteed at 17 per (he got more than I thought he did). He is older than BJ Upton and plays worse defense/less valuable defensive position. He has also been a worse player the last few years than BJ Upton. In addition, with upton I think some of that price is still going to the hope that he continues to Develop to that potential he was once thought to have.
    I think he could have gotten the 6th year guaranteed, considering how bad this FA class is.

    That's really debatable, ethier was hurt for a decent part of 2011, and upton has had trouble maintain a half way decent OPB the last several years, in fact the .331 he had in 2011 is his highest mark he has had over the last 4 years.

    I think the braves are paying more for what he could potentially be than what he has done so far.

  7. #187
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    I would throw a chair Beane style if the Cardinals landed Price, which they totally have the pieces to do.

    Seriously, that chair wouldn't know what hit it.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    I think he could have gotten the 6th year guaranteed, considering how bad this FA class is.

    That's really debatable, ethier was hurt for a decent part of 2011, and upton has had trouble maintain a half way decent OPB the last several years, in fact the .331 he had in 2011 is his highest mark he has had over the last 4 years.

    I think the braves are paying more for what he could potentially be than what he has done so far.
    OPB? I assume you mean OBP, which only tells part of the story about a player...

    You are also specifically hand picking stats and time frames that benefit your argument and don't take into account the entire picture. You also just base your argument on "well I think so because this free agent class is bad". Upton is better or = player who is younger, and got less money/yr and less years.
    Save the kittens, ignore sbs' posts
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  9. #189
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    It's fine to work with Upton being better since he is.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaughan333 View Post
    How does losing Longoria change the impact of Zobrist? What do you mean by mitigated
    Longoria makes everyone in that line up better, just like posey does for the giants, when these guys are out oposing pitchers can pitch around guys like zobrist and pablo for instance.
    Quote Originally Posted by gaughan333 View Post
    OPB? I assume you mean OBP, which only tells part of the story about a player...

    You are also specifically hand picking stats and time frames that benefit your argument and don't take into account the entire picture. You also just base your argument on "well I think so because this free agent class is bad". Upton is better or = player who is younger, and got less money/yr and less years.
    Yes i did

    OBP is important, the better you are at getting on base consistently the more runs your team is likely to score, i don't think it's all that selective, how about a saber stat for you

    his wOBA the last 4 years
    09).306
    10).328
    11).333
    12).323

    compared to andre ethier
    09).371
    10).368
    11).345
    12).350

    i don't think it's unfair to say that over the last 4 years andre ethier has been the more productive hitter. Andre has ranged from above average to great, while Upton has ranged from piss poor to average over the last 4 years.
    Last edited by ciaban; 12-04-2012 at 12:56 AM.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    It's fine to work with Upton being better since he is.
    they are just two different players,

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    Longoria makes everyone in that line up better, just like posey does for the giants, when these guys are out oposing pitchers can pitch around guys like zobrist and pablo for instance.

    Yes i did

    OBP is important, the better you are at getting on base consistently the more runs your team is likely to score, i don't think it's all that selective, how about a saber stat for you

    his wOBA the last 4 years
    09).306
    10).328
    11).333
    12).323

    compared to andre ethier
    09).371
    10).368
    11).345
    12).350

    i don't think it's unfair to say that over the last 4 years andre ethier has been the more productive hitter. Andre has ranged from above average to great, while Upton has ranged from piss poor to average over the last 4 years.
    If you look at Zobrist's stats, it doesn't support your argument. He was as good offensively this year as he was last year.
    Save the kittens, ignore sbs' posts
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  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaughan333 View Post
    If you look at Zobrist's stats, it doesn't support your argument. He was as good offensively this year as he was last year.
    i never said zobrist was bad, but Longoria makes that offense much better.

  14. #194
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    btw since i keep picking stats that make my argument better for Andre over BJ is there any that you want to use?

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    btw since i keep picking stats that make my argument better for Andre over BJ is there any that you want to use?
    Are you arguing Upton vs Ethier?

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