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  1. #1
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    Grantland Bill Simmons Brandon Knight MAX player and trade value #60

    Figured we should have just a Brandon knight thread since we are talking about him all over the place

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    Good call, wish I had seen this sooner. I'll recap my thoughts here.

    I think Knight is a nice future piece. Don't think he'll ever be a great distributor, but if he can defend, shoot the 3, and take care of the ball, that should be more than enough once the team has better isolation guys. Parker and Giannis just need time, and possibly one more draft pick this coming year and they should be all set.

    He's a good player who does a lot of things well. A lot if being expected of him on this current team and some possessions won't look so good. Still, I'm a fan and I think he'll be more appreciated when he's not such an offensive focal point.
    Last edited by thornga2; 11-03-2014 at 12:54 AM.

  3. #3
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    http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6448/brandon-knight

    Knight has a long way to go before he earns my trust.

    Knight only had one good game for shooting wise and it was .600 shooting 9-15 versus Wizards. He went 2-8 .250 against a horrible 76ers D league team. By the way MCW didn't even play. 5-17 .294 shooting versus Hornets. Yeesh. Preseason 0-8 .000 versus Wolves. Knight single handedly lost the Hornets game. Also no excuse not to have any assists this year. We have tons of shooters this year. Only good thing about Knight is he has the knack for rebounds. Also decent slasher and gets to the free throw line. But seems mainly the reason he gets boards is cause our big's are out of position cause they're going for blocked shots.

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    Tell me again how he single-handedly lost the Hornets game? I guess I'm confused there.

    I think it's too early to take a close look at any stats- the sample size is just too small. My hope is that Kidd can help him improve his game and get to the point where he can run an offense and take care of the ball. If he can do that, I think he'll be a very nice player going forward.

    I think he can become Jeff Teague with much better defense and a slightly better three point shot.

  5. #5
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    I like Knight as a guy, seem like a nice guy and a very hard worker but the dude can't run an offense. He has the ball in his hands to much for a crappy inconsistent chucker. He's been in the league a couple years and still I haven't seen any signs that he'll change.

    Guys like him, Kemba Walker, Jennings etc dont win you games. They're chuckers who don't do much else.

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    I really don't think he's a chucker. In fact he's currently 21st in the league in scoring and only one guy above him has taken fewer shots. He's at 13.3, Jeff teague is at 13. Most guys above him are at least 16 a game. He's scoring a lot because he's getting to the line a ton and hitting his free throws, as well as shooting it well from deep. Which is great.

    I think he'd be fine with a reduced offensive load on a good team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcenate05050 View Post
    I like Knight as a guy, seem like a nice guy and a very hard worker but the dude can't run an offense. He has the ball in his hands to much for a crappy inconsistent chucker. He's been in the league a couple years and still I haven't seen any signs that he'll change.

    Guys like him, Kemba Walker, Jennings etc dont win you games. They're chuckers who don't do much else.
    Just. Stop. Now. Kemba Walker is one of the most clutch shooters in the league, clearly you don't pay attention.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by thornga2 View Post
    Tell me again how he single-handedly lost the Hornets game? I guess I'm confused there.

    I think it's too early to take a close look at any stats- the sample size is just too small. My hope is that Kidd can help him improve his game and get to the point where he can run an offense and take care of the ball. If he can do that, I think he'll be a very nice player going forward.

    I think he can become Jeff Teague with much better defense and a slightly better three point shot.
    Well I guess I can post it again here even though I posted it a few times in free agency thread. Bucks had a 24 point lead versus Hornets. Game never should of went to overtime if Knight could of managed the shot clock better. No instead he preferred to jack up shots with at least 18 seconds left on it on multiple possessions.

    When Knight did pound the ball and passed with a few seconds left on the shot clock the guy that received the pass had to put up a erratic contested shot. Also Knight turned it over a few times which sealed the deal for over time. Yeah what can I say Knight is a awesome, inflated stat stuffer and great tank commander. I'm on board.

    Let him pad his stats and then deal him at the deadline for a pick or guys on rookie deals. No way Knight will help speed up the progress in our youth movement. More like hinder it. Thinking more for himself in a contract year. The core of this team is Parker and Giannis. Maybe Sanders as well. But if we can draft a big that plays both ends of the floor then Sanders isn't the core either. Rest on the team are just assets.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by thornga2 View Post
    I really don't think he's a chucker. In fact he's currently 21st in the league in scoring and only one guy above him has taken fewer shots. He's at 13.3, Jeff teague is at 13. Most guys above him are at least 16 a game. He's scoring a lot because he's getting to the line a ton and hitting his free throws, as well as shooting it well from deep. Which is great.

    I think he'd be fine with a reduced offensive load on a good team.
    Exactly. That's what I've been trying to argue, but some in here can't accept that. Is Knight going to be Chris Paul or Derrick Rose (when he was healthy)? No. Is Knight going to be the best or second best player on a championship team? Probably not. But he can be a useful asset, and he's by far the best option we have on this team. Would I prefer we have an all-star caliber PG? Heck yes I would, but that's not feasible in our situation. He's still young and has upside still. Let him play and work his flaws out. He needs to shoot better, and can cut down on the turnovers, but what young pg can't do those things?

    I also love your point that he really hasn't taken that many shots compared to some of the guys higher on the scoring list, yet he still gets the chucker status apparently. And he is dishing out 9 assists per game, but he's not distributing enough. Sometimes I feel like he could shoot 90% from the field, score 30 points, hold his guy to 10 points, dish out 15 assists, and grab 10 boards, and people would focus on his 1 turnover that game. I'm not sure where the hate comes from. Is he elite? No, but is he better than any replacement option we could have get in a trade or in free agency (unless we make some ridiculous win now move like trading for Rondo or something)? Yes. We'll have some growing pains with him, but to think that we'd be a better team if we just let Wolters and Marshall run the show is ridiculous in my mind. Both of those guys are worse offensively and defensively.

  10. #10
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    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...3/on-off/2015/

    I'm not much for advance stats but shows were better with Knight off the court ORtg wise. 116.7 off the court versus on the court with 92.1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MILLERHIGHLIFE View Post
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...3/on-off/2015/

    I'm not much for advance stats but shows were better with Knight off the court ORtg wise. 116.7 off the court versus on the court with 92.1.
    Too soon for stats like that to mean much, and I'm not a fan of those stats anyways because they can get skewed very easily. It's pretty common for teams to score more points when both teams have bench players in. That's why comparing court time and things like that can be really inaccurate.

  12. #12
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    A young–yet talented–Milwaukee Bucks team has had a pretty good start to the season seeing their expectations, but has still had some issues that they need to overcome in order to truly shock the NBA and finish with more than double their 15 wins from 2013.

    Two problems the Bucks have had early on are turnovers and getting to the free throw line. These are two common issues a younger team can have.

    Younger players don’t always know how to play pro ball as efficiently as it needs to be played, and don’t realize how much easier it is to win games while shooting a lot of free throws until playing with someone that has won a lot of games, something no one on the Bucks has particularly done.


    They will have to make the mistakes to fix them, and it’s just one of those things that comes with time.

    The turnovers have been especially bad, having 27 of them just against the Washington Wizards on Nov. 1. On the season, Milwaukee is tied for seventh in the NBA with Philadelphia with an average of 16 turnovers per game.

    In the small sample size of games the Bucks have played, they have actually won two of three games turning the ball over more than the opposition.

    To be fair, one of the wins was over the Sixers–who are all aboard the tank train–and the one win while turning the ball over less was against an injury-depleted Pacers team that has their fair share of young, inexperienced talent on the floor as well.

    In the free throw department, all of the Bucks’ losses have occurred while losing the free throw attempt battle (made more than Charlotte and Detroit in fewer attempts). In all three of their wins, they have somehow managed to shoot fewer free throws and still play good enough to win.

    One of those wins includes the then undefeated Memphis Grizzlies, who turned the ball over less and shot and made more free throws than the Bucks.

    Having limited attempts at the line, as I mentioned earlier, is just a trait of a younger team and will change when they play and grow together more throughout the season. The turnovers, however, actually have a source.

    Point guards generally aim to have a high assist-to-turnover ratio. The best of the best create for their team more than the other team. Chris Paul, widely regarded as the best point guard in the league, unsurprisingly ranks first in assist-to-turnover ratio at 10.40.

    Brandon Knight is pretty far from those numbers at only 2.25.

    Knight is tied for third with John Wall with 26 total turnovers this season. Knight has had a great season overall, but that amount of turnovers is just something you don’t want from the guy running your offense.

    Knight being more careful with the ball can make a huge difference, not only making the offense run more smoothly (tied with Charlotte for 25th in offensive efficiency ranking at 96.5), but giving the Bucks more opportunities to score, and the other teams less.



    Not that anyone expects the Bucks to make the playoffs this season, but competing alone has to be something Jason Kidd and the organization is happy with for this season. Rebuilding is all about growth, and in sports, growth doesn’t happen in one day, one week, one month.

    It may take a year, but the Bucks will get there. For this season, all they need to do is grow, and apart of their growth process will be working out these small kinks like turnovers and lack of free throw attempts.

    They have gotten a little bit lucky early on with some of their wins, but they have competed more than some may have hoped or expected nonetheless. Their roster consists of some young players the league may be watching for a long time, but at first you just have to grow.

    Right now, the Bucks and their players are in that phase.

    As the season rolls along, we will have a good opportunity to see just how much these Bucks improve. Time and repetition can fix a lot of problems, and in Milwaukee, it’s just little things to fix. They will get there, and when they do, they have a good team on their hands.

    For a team that won just 15 games last season, being already a fifth of the way there through seven games is a pretty darn good sign of improvement. They still have a long way to go, but I think it is less than a lot of people may think.
    http://hoopshabit.com/2014/11/09/mil...s-problematic/

  13. #13
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    Happy Birthday Knight!

  14. #14
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    •The Bucks‘ Brandon Knight is another soon-to-be restricted free agent who is making the most of his opportunity, argues John Zitzler of Basketball Insiders. Knight, the only Milwaukee player to start all 28 games, is averaging 17.5 points, 5.4 assists and 1.3 steals per contest. Knight has indicated a desire to stay with the Bucks, and Milwaukee can match any offer made to the 23-year-old this summer, but Zitzler speculates that the guard could get an offer of more than $12MM annually, similar to deals Kemba Walker and Kyle Lowry signed.
    http://www.hoopsrumors.com/milwaukee-bucks

    Not fond of $12M per. But the summer Knight is RFA QO is $5,054,462. Mayo and Zaza and Bayless are on final year. Also Ersan following year is only guaranteed $400K out of $8.4M. So guess its not the worst. But if there isn't much of a market then we could hope for something similar to this = Isaiah Thomas $7,238,606 $6,912,869 $6,587,131 $6,261,394. Worst case i'm hoping its like Brandon Jennings $8,000,000 $8,344,497.

    But if he's paid $12M per then he will think he's the man and Giannis and Parker will be left behind at the wayside. Knight has to long of a leash since he got here. Has the green light to fire at will. Might as well give him a nick name like Green Light Knight. lol Even with TV deal kicking in a few years. Knight at $12M per and Sanders at $11M per kinda getting expensive. That's $23M per. I'd offer him this contract and call it a day Jeff Teague $8,000,000 $8,000,000 $8,000,000.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MILLERHIGHLIFE View Post
    http://www.hoopsrumors.com/milwaukee-bucks

    Not fond of $12M per. But the summer Knight is RFA QO is $5,054,462. Mayo and Zaza and Bayless are on final year. Also Ersan following year is only guaranteed $400K out of $8.4M. So guess its not the worst. But if there isn't much of a market then we could hope for something similar to this = Isaiah Thomas $7,238,606 $6,912,869 $6,587,131 $6,261,394. Worst case i'm hoping its like Brandon Jennings $8,000,000 $8,344,497.

    But if he's paid $12M per then he will think he's the man and Giannis and Parker will be left behind at the wayside. Knight has to long of a leash since he got here. Has the green light to fire at will. Might as well give him a nick name like Green Light Knight. lol Even with TV deal kicking in a few years. Knight at $12M per and Sanders at $11M per kinda getting expensive. That's $23M per. I'd offer him this contract and call it a day Jeff Teague $8,000,000 $8,000,000 $8,000,000.
    Knight is better than Teague, Thomas, and Jennings. He's one of the only guys we have had since Andrew Bogut who has gotten consistently better each season in the league. I don't see anyone better in free agency or the draft to take his place. We can't be cheap here, Kohl is gone

    Knight is 7th in the league in scoring at the point guard position. He's shooting at a 44% clip and an insane 40% from downtown. He's tied for 19th in the league in assists, and second to last in turnovers. The players right with him in these categories though are Eric Bledsoe and Damien Lillard. He's 9th in rebounds and 15th in steals. If you prefer him as a shooting guard he would also be 7th in scoring at that position and 4th in assists.
    Last edited by BroncoBuck; 12-30-2014 at 11:34 AM.

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