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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaMetFan View Post
    I think the OF and the team got instantly better with the subtractions of Bay and Torres. Even if we don't pick anyone else up and go with what we had in the 1st half.
    Torres might be back even though they declined him arbitration.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Torres might be back even though they declined him arbitration.
    Not if I were running the team.. lol

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    The 2012 Mets were 23.1 WAR. Add Beltran, Reyes and Pagan and they'd have been 33.5 WAR. The 2012 Giants were 33.8 WAR.

    The Mets aren't that far away from being a contender. Had it not been for the fire sale they would have been contenders last year. The problem is ownership needs to spend money on talent. Dealing the team's two 6 WAR players moves the team backwards not forwards. The solution is simple. The Coupons need to spend, either on free agents or through trade.

    Since that will probably not happen next year, the Mets are actually very far away.
    As I pointed out by counting WAR above, what separated the Mets from being contenders in 2012 was basically Beltran, Pagan and Reyes.

    Everyone's all excited about trading R.A. Dickey, but all it means is the Mets are another 2 or so years from being any good.

    The Wilpons have condemned us to watching garbage teams for a good 5 years total so they can bleed the team like leeches and recoup all the stolen money they pocketed in Ponzi scheme #2.

    For that reason I'm not too excited about the trade. It's all about the Wilpons trying to save money and wastes two years of our lives we could have had exciting baseball.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    As I pointed out by counting WAR above, what separated the Mets from being contenders in 2012 was basically Beltran, Pagan and Reyes.

    Everyone's all excited about trading R.A. Dickey, but all it means is the Mets are another 2 or so years from being any good.

    The Wilpons have condemned us to watching garbage teams for a good 5 years total so they can bleed the team like leeches and recoup all the stolen money they pocketed in Ponzi scheme #2.

    For that reason I'm not too excited about the trade. It's all about the Wilpons trying to save money and wastes two years of our lives we could have had exciting baseball.
    It would have been false hope. I like the way things are going now.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    It would have been false hope. I like the way things are going now.
    There was enough talent to contend if ownership had spent to supplement it properly. The younger players on the team now who are forced into starting roles they're not excelling at would've developed into great depth backing up the guys the fire sale got rid of.

    WAR indicates it wouldn't have been false hope.

    But, you're YOUNG Stuna28. You're probably overconfident you'll live forever and aren't worried about waiting and waiting and waiting for championship quality baseball. All I can tell you is time flies.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    There was enough talent to contend if ownership had spent to supplement it properly. The younger players on the team now who are forced into starting roles they're not excelling at would've developed into great depth backing up the guys the fire sale got rid of.

    WAR indicates it wouldn't have been false hope.

    But, you're YOUNG Stuna28. You're probably overconfident you'll live forever and aren't worried about waiting and waiting and waiting for championship quality baseball. All I can tell you is time flies.
    Of course, if they had spent more supplement them, but they didn't have the money so here we are.

    Your conspiracy may very well be correct, but there is nothing you or I can do about it so I'm on board with the moves they make as long as they are sound baseball decisions. Dealing RA for the 2 top prospects we got back is a great baseball decision for a rebuilding Mets team.

    The payroll was around $142M back then, so I don't see how we could make any more moves and retain our players.

  7. #112
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    The problem now is that we have to hope this number one catching prospect pans out. But mpre than that, we have to hope the young pitchers pick up a lot of the slack that baseball's number one innings eater left behind.

    That's a lot to ask.

    Still waiting for this trade to be announced and then we'll see if the kids they got back can be impact players at their positions.

    Otherwise, all the Sandy Wilpons did was spin their wheels and bring in more APHs while having to worry about one less expensive contract.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    The problem now is that we have to hope this number one catching prospect pans out. But mpre than that, we have to hope the young pitchers pick up a lot of the slack that baseball's number one innings eater left behind.

    That's a lot to ask.

    Still waiting for this trade to be announced and then we'll see if the kids they got back can be impact players at their positions.

    Otherwise, all the Sandy Wilpons did was spin their wheels and bring in more APHs while having to worry about one less expensive contract.
    The RA Dickey trade reminds me of the Lee Mazzilli Trade.

    A popular Mets player who was around during some terrible seasons, but who was more valuable to the Mets as a trade commodity.

    Dickey is a great pitcher who I loved to root for, but in the end he is more valuable to a contender and we have two stellar prospects to show for that.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    The RA Dickey trade reminds me of the Lee Mazzilli Trade.

    A popular Mets player who was around during some terrible seasons, but who was more valuable to the Mets as a trade commodity.

    Dickey is a great pitcher who I loved to root for, but in the end he is more valuable to a contender and we have two stellar prospects to show for that.
    Not so much. By 1981 Mazzilli was suffering from the back problems that would eventually shorten his career while Dickey is at the top of his game. Also George Foster had been signed prior to the 1982 season to replace Maz - a substantial upgrade.

    Losing Mazzilli's -0.9 WAR was a plus, while losing Dickey's 5.6 WAR will be a problem.

    Long term this might be a good deal, but as it stands it's a cost cutting move in which the Mets are punting the next couple years. It's a traditional Royals/Pirates kind of move made by a bad, cheap team to cut costs in exchange for a hand full of magic beans.

    As it relates to this thread, the Mets are now substantially further away than they were before.

  10. #115
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    Well if D'Arnaud can hit .280/.330/.470 with good defense, he will be a huge upgrade over Thole. Hard to call him a magic bean when he's a major league ready elite prospect.

    Syndergaard was certainly risky, but anytime you can get a potential ace you do it. He absolutely dominated Low A last year at only 19 years old.

    We were not a piece or two away from contention, and starting pitching is the major strength of this organization. Just accept the rebuilding phase.

    I applaud Wilpon for letting this trade go down instead of keeping Dickey for one more season for ticket sales and the all-star game, only to let him go after the season.
    Last edited by YoungStuna; 12-17-2012 at 10:56 AM.

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