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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    It's hard enough dealing Niese, but Gee as well is too much IN MY OPINION.
    Would you do it if it were Niese and Mejia rather than Gee?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynny67 View Post
    So FIP and XFIP is all thats used now in determining a better pitcher?

    Oh, and Niese started 30 games and 190 innings while Gee started 17 and 109 innings. LOL nice try though.
    To predict future success, pretty much. Our only guarenteed quality starter in our rotation would be Dickey and probably Harvey. Santana is a huge question mark and will be gone in 2014, Wheeler is unproven, and there isn't anyone else that can step in unless you want to see a lot of Jeremy Hefner and maybe a guy like Darin Gorski.

    If our back-end of our rotation flops or guys get injured, we are ****ed. We will have to shell out a ton of money for back-end starters which sucks.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynny67 View Post
    So FIP and XFIP is all thats used now in determining a better pitcher?

    Oh, and Niese started 30 games and 190 innings while Gee started 17 and 109 innings. LOL nice try though.
    Gee had a very freak injury.

    He also had a better K/BB ratio, better strikeouts per nine, the same HR per 9, along to go with that better FIP and XFIP.

    If anything they were pretty equal at worst with Gee having more than a good case explaining why he was the better pitcher until the injury.

    So now you are dealing two number 3s for a possible .850 to .900 OPS OF (like Ace just mentioned translating AA stats to MLB stats)

    Those type of OFs come on the market way more often, could be acquired this offseason nevermind next offseason if the Mets really wanted to, and are easier to get than quality SP.

    Will Myers end up being an exceptional player? Probably but you aren't getting full potential type of production right out of the gate from him guaranteed.

    At least we have a pretty good idea what Niese and Gee are in 2013 and 2014.
    Last edited by metswon69; 12-01-2012 at 01:58 AM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by acerimusdux View Post
    Would you do it if it were Niese and Mejia rather than Gee?
    Absolutely, without hesitation.

    Our rotation would be much less of an issue as we'd have Dickey, Santana, Harvey, Gee, and maybe a Pelfrey for the 5th spot. Still pretty good, a few question marks, but still solid overall. Wheeler would step in for anyone who gets hurt, and I'm sure someone out of that bunch will get hurt.

    I wasn't much of a Gee fan coming into 2012, but he's a smart pitcher that has learned how to use all four of his pitches to get swing and misses and grounders. He was really having a nice season before the freak injury.

    Mejia is a high upside, but risky arm so I wouldn't mind dealing him. If he fulfills his upside though, the Royals would be very pleased with the deal imo.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    No one probably wants to hear this, but the Mets Gregor Blanco is Mike Baxter.

    Give Mike Baxter all the AB Duda would get, and we would see a nice improvement.

    Get Ludwick, and our OF would look decent.

    LF-Ludwick, CF-Nieuwenhuis, RF-Baxter is a decent one. Get a guy like Reed Johnson to platoon with Baxter, and maybe even bring back Torres for cheap to play with Kirk in CF.
    I like Ludwick(sign him to a two year deal), except I'd pass on resigning Torres and Johnson(we're going to be awful, so let's get our young players ample playing time). Have Duda/V-Spin/Dekker battle it out for right in ST, as they're the lone outfielders on this roster w/ upside sans Kirk. Get Corey Hart and maybe Gomez if Ludwick sucks here and we'd be 1-2 #5 insurance starters(Freddy Garcia, Chien-Ming Wang types who can start 10 - 15 games if someone gets injured for a substantial amount of time) away from being a championship team in 2014.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Yeah but that's under the assumption Myers hits right away after dealing away Niese and Gee for him.

    What if he struggles out of the gate and takes longer into his career to start hitting at an elite level?

    Not to mention Santana is gone after next season no matter what the circumstances.

    In fact i am sure they deal him if he has any trade value at the deadline next year.

    So then all of a sudden the 2014 rotation can be a huge issue with limited experience there besides Dickey (if he re-signs)
    Sums up to a tee why trading Dickey or Niese for Myers/D'Arnaud is the dumbest thing ever to do. We have 8-10 proven players and we've just extended a 30 y/o 3B, it makes no sense to trade one of our few proven players for a unknown especially when it would take us a back to go a step forward. If we're going to move a Dickey or a Niese, we have to get two proven average starting players that are 30 or less and under team control for 2+ years.
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  7. #67
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    Call me when they finish over .500.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    Call me when they finish over .500.
    Quick question, would you have dealt Dickey and Wright, or would you extend them?
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    ....but seriously I really do agree with Cameron, the Mets could get a couple of decent players and actually improve and have a chance to surprise because their pitching is good and have excellent depth as well.

    Their outfield was so bad last year, that getting a couple of 2 WAR type players would make a world of difference because Duda was just so horrible on defense and Bay was worthless that just about anybody would be an improvement. They need guys that can play at least average defense and can be average hitters.

    The infield is good imo as well, not great or spectacular, but solid.

    Then the other problem is the pen, but with arms like Mejia and Famlia as well as other guys that will be at AA and AAA that could be improved from within. I also think Burke would be a solid addition, but if the Rays are able to find pen guys of the scrap heap each year why can't the Mets?
    I agree...the if we can transform this pen we can win.

    Its tough to compete when you have the worst bullpen in baseball by far.

    I think its time to just move Mejia and Familia to the pen and let them develop as relievers.
    DUDA


    Quote Originally Posted by VendettaRed07 View Post
    noah is gonna be a beast man.

    with him and harvey, its like were gonna have Goku and Vegetta in the same rotation

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    I agree...the if we can transform this pen we can win.

    Its tough to compete when you have the worst bullpen in baseball by far.

    I think its time to just move Mejia and Familia to the pen and let them develop as relievers.
    I still think this team is going to have a huge problem if FF is still the closer.

    They have to find an effective combination of guys especially from the left side.

    I don't trust Carson much, if they can bring in a JP Howell or someone who can help Edgin that would certainly sure up the bullpen in some respect.

    Even Feliciano if he has anything left could help but only on a minor league deal.

    The problem with a young bullpen is innings, the ability to get out guys out in clutch spots, and possible inconsistency issues. They should try to bring in some veteran pieces like a Wilson, Grilli, Cruz or someone of that nature.
    Last edited by metswon69; 12-01-2012 at 06:07 PM.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I still think this team is going to have a huge problem if FF is still the closer.

    They have to find an effective combination of guys especially from the left side.

    I don't trust Carson much, if they can bring in a JP Howell or someone who can help Edgin that would certainly sure up the bullpen in some respect.

    Even Feliciano if he has anything left could help but only on a minor league deal.

    The problem with a young bullpen is innings, the ability to get out guys out in clutch spots, and possible inconsistency issues. They should try to bring in some veteran pieces like a Wilson, Grilli, Cruz or someone of that nature.
    \Picky, picky, picky.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomota48 View Post
    \Picky, picky, picky.
    Well i think there are valid concerns to having Familia, Mejia, Edgin, Carson all with limited major league experience anchor a pen.

    That's why i would like to see some the Mets acquire a veteran piece or two, guys with proven major league success even if relief pitchers can be bi-polar year to year.

    I am sure they could find someone not named Tim Byrdak or Manny Acosta.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Well i think there are valid concerns to having Familia, Mejia, Edgin, Carson all with limited major league experience anchor a pen.

    That's why i would like to see some the Mets acquire a veteran piece or two, guys with proven major league success even if relief pitchers can be bi-polar year to year.

    I am sure they could find someone not named Tim Byrdak or Manny Acosta.


    I agree completely with this, they can't get a couple of good vet relievers?

    The argument that relievers are up and down is completely silly, what you gonna do, never sign a good reliever?

    It is not a complete crapshoot either, otherwise the Mets would luck into a good bullpen every now and again.

  14. #74
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    The 2012 Mets were 23.1 WAR. Add Beltran, Reyes and Pagan and they'd have been 33.5 WAR. The 2012 Giants were 33.8 WAR.

    The Mets aren't that far away from being a contender. Had it not been for the fire sale they would have been contenders last year. The problem is ownership needs to spend money on talent. Dealing the team's two 6 WAR players moves the team backwards not forwards. The solution is simple. The Coupons need to spend, either on free agents or through trade.

    Since that will probably not happen next year, the Mets are actually very far away.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    The 2012 Mets were 23.1 WAR. Add Beltran, Reyes and Pagan and they'd have been 33.5 WAR. The 2012 Giants were 33.8 WAR.

    The Mets aren't that far away from being a contender. Had it not been for the fire sale they would have been contenders last year. The problem is ownership needs to spend money on talent. Dealing the team's two 6 WAR players moves the team backwards not forwards. The solution is simple. The Coupons need to spend, either on free agents or through trade.

    Since that will probably not happen next year, the Mets are actually very far away.
    Mets only have two players under contract for 2014 presently, Niese and Wright. I'm pretty sure they will add FAs and make trades. It is highly likely.
    "The 90 wins is about challenge. It's about changing the conversation. It's about framing questions for ourselves as to how we get there. So I stand by the notion that we need to get better, and in doing so we need to set concrete goals for ourselves so that we have sort of specific conversations among ourselves about how we're going to get there." -- Mr. Alderson

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