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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubsbears1225 View Post
    Kenny Lofton knew how to draw more walks and has more pop in his bat.

    I'd compare him offensively to Juan Pierre and Lofton in the field.
    Lofton averaged about 60 walks a year, similar to Bourn. Lofton kept his BA over 300 regularly, that's really the difference. The homers aren't that far apart. He's inbetween Lofton and Pierre, if anything.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOwolfOL View Post
    Lofton averaged about 60 walks a year, similar to Bourn. Lofton kept his BA over 300 regularly, that's really the difference. The homers aren't that far apart. He's inbetween Lofton and Pierre, if anything.
    While I would be happy with a Bourn signing at the right price and years (in line with much of what's been said on here), the comparison between Bourn and Lofton is a pretty significant stretch. Bourn is much more a better Juan Pierre than a Kenny Lofton.

    Lofton's average is much higher as was mentioned (.299 career, 5 seasons of +.310 aveage), however, his walks were actually noticeably higher that Bourn's (32.7% more average walks), and Lofton's home runs were vastly higher (150% more, though admittedly he still only averaged 10 a year). Lofton was a career .794OPS pretty much exclusively from the lead-off spot. We'll never see that from Bourn.

    All this being said, again, I could get behind the signing, we just need to be clear that we're getting a better Juan Pierre, we're not getting a Kenny Lofton.
    Next Year is Here!

  3. #138
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    Super conspiracy theory- The Cubs do their best to help Boras drive up the price on Michael Bourn, Boras makes sure Appel signs a halfway-decent contract if he's the pick in the draft.

    Maybe silly, I've been struggling to think how Bourn makes any sense at all for this Cubs team and I finally landed on this. We haven't had much interaction with Boras, maybe we're trying to build up some good will with one of the most powerful men in the game? Not necessarily for Appel either, but I'd imagine Boras is a good person to owe your organization a favor...

    Or do I need to see someone for my paranoia?
    Yeah it's a palindrome
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  4. #139
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    He's a really good player who does a number of things very well. The Cubs don't have anywhere close to enough of those players at or near the major league level. He doesn't cost anything other than money, and isn't going to command a ridiculous number of years on his contract. Why wouldn't they be seeing if he can meet their price range? I think at something stupid like 6/90 they're clearly out, and they're probably hoping they can get him closer to 5/70 or 5/75, and realistically most people think he's closer to the 5/80 range. But the market just might break more towards that 5/70 range if Hamilton hits SEA and Greinke hits TEX and no other sleeper team steps up.

    So those are all of the reasons to keep a foot in the water and keep talks going a little longer.

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  5. #140
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    I guess I'm just living in he past, recalling a lot of it BA struggles as an Astro. His spectacular range would be somewhat less valuable in Wrigley's CF, and I feel like this team needs to find more OF power if Dejesus is going to be around for the entire season.

    But I understand that he is a very good player, and if the market is down, then you use the resources where you can...

    I lurk a lot, good to see your pretty floral bonnet again, Str1fe.
    Yeah it's a palindrome
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  6. #141
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    Bourn doesn't make a ton of sense at this point. If you sign him, you have to trade DeJesus, for whom I doubt there is a big market, or Soriano, which cuts into your gains from Bourn pretty severely.

    If we plan on spending any or all of the remaining money (a dubious proposition with this team these days), I'd rather just go for pitching. You cannot have too much of it.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Str1fe5 View Post
    He's a really good player who does a number of things very well. The Cubs don't have anywhere close to enough of those players at or near the major league level. He doesn't cost anything other than money, and isn't going to command a ridiculous number of years on his contract. Why wouldn't they be seeing if he can meet their price range? I think at something stupid like 6/90 they're clearly out, and they're probably hoping they can get him closer to 5/70 or 5/75, and realistically most people think he's closer to the 5/80 range. But the market just might break more towards that 5/70 range if Hamilton hits SEA and Greinke hits TEX and no other sleeper team steps up.

    So those are all of the reasons to keep a foot in the water and keep talks going a little longer.
    That isn't true being I am pretty sure the Braves made him a qualifying offer. If that is the case he would cost the Cubs a high second round draft pick. Since they have all but done away with the supplemental picks the players who normally went in the sandwich rounds would be there for the Cubs at their pick. Bourn really doesn't make any sense for the Cubs at this point especially at that cost.
    French writer Alexis de Tocqueville warned about when visiting this fledgling democracy in the early 19th century that this "American republic will endure until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleJRM View Post
    Bourn doesn't make a ton of sense at this point. If you sign him, you have to trade DeJesus, for whom I doubt there is a big market, or Soriano, which cuts into your gains from Bourn pretty severely.

    If we plan on spending any or all of the remaining money (a dubious proposition with this team these days), I'd rather just go for pitching. You cannot have too much of it.
    Agree...

    I think great teams are built up the middle. P-C-MI and CF. However, it all starts with pitching. I would rather look at McCarthy and/or Sanchez more so then a 30 year old outfielder.

    But, knowing Garza is in a very short term contract, think 1 more year, as soon as other clubs express interest, we need to take advantage of the pitching market and move him for prospects. At least McCarthy and/or Sanchez is just $$$ no prospects.

  9. #144
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    The urge/need to trade Garza is riddick. If there's a sell high pitcher on the roster its Samardzija or even Wood. At this point, I'm expecting a strong comeback, I say it's smarter to just extend Garza. He's arguably the best pitcher in the upcoming 2014 FA anyway.

  10. #145
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    Nothing like extending pitchers who have shown no sign of signing reasonable contracts in the past and have had multiple elbow issues.

  11. #146
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    Well then don't extend him today. I worry less about the elbow than most. Both of those things fail to make him a more attractive trade piece.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleJRM View Post
    Nothing like extending pitchers who have shown no sign of signing reasonable contracts in the past and have had multiple elbow issues.
    I agree. Smells strongly of a trade deadline deal to me. Its a shame he got hurt before last seasons deadline. His value will be highest if he has a good season up to the deadline. If not, maybe his contract demands lower some and then possibly look to extend him.

  13. #148
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    What's a sign of reasonable contract demands anyway?

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    The urge/need to trade Garza is riddick. If there's a sell high pitcher on the roster its Samardzija or even Wood. At this point, I'm expecting a strong comeback, I say it's smarter to just extend Garza. He's arguably the best pitcher in the upcoming 2014 FA anyway.
    Signing Garza to an extension would make sense but extension talks stopped when Samardzija wanted the no trade clause added.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
    What's a sign of reasonable contract demands anyway?
    Not going over the moon in your arbitration submission is a start.

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