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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    What made it seem that way? Was it all the losses we accumulated on a poor offense? Was it his lessened productive worth?
    just the games i was able to watch. He was driving more and looked way more aggressive. now he's taking so much jumpers


  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clippersfan86 View Post
    If you've watched Rondo in the playoffs you'd know he's very clutch and a killer.
    Watched him throughout his career, he did much better this year but looking at his entire career including that entire regular season, he usually stops attacking the rim with the same tenacity in the clutch because hes scared of getting to the line and he still overpasses. Im not seeing this very clutch killer your speaking of. That would be CP3.


    You think Rondo is terrible in PNR but CP3 stupidly runs PNR hardly ever with our bigs and significantly less this year than last which is one of my biggest gripes.
    I dont think Rondo is terrible, I said hes far less effective than CP3 at it because teams will never respect his outside shot and they will concede every outlet jumper by Griffin, what you end up with are two lane cloggers who dont compliment each other.

    I agree that I dont like how Blake is being utilized but some of that is on him and how teams are playing him now. Hes not finishing those PnR plays with the same efficiency in spite of him being more selective with them, this leads me to believe hes abit banged up or teams are crowding the paint, thus leading to more kickouts. To his credit, Blake has been finding them. Imagine those same plays being kick outs to Rondo. Pass - CLANG


    I'm not saying they are equal either. I'm just starting to doubt Blake and CP3 will become the super duo most of us expected.
    I honestly dont know what you were expecting.

    Chris has been pretty disappointing to me this year despite having more talent around him than ever before.
    Same here, but forgive me for not trusting your ability to evaluate talent. I mean is it more talent than he had in New Orleans?

    Kevin Martin and Ellis are borderline all stars, Rondo is half the price of CP3 and has 3 years left and Sullinger or Green would be great depth additions.
    Look man you say these things but it doesnt make them true. Green is not great depth, hes played horribly this year and has never proven to be worth his contract. I mean your trying to sell me on Rondo being cheaper but also sell me on absorbing Greens contract? Dimentia indeed, Sullinger is an interesting prospect but nothing worth downgrading our PG position so substantially.

    You mention Rondo's issues spreading the floor but with the weapons we have the full burden won't be on him (similar to Celtics last few years).
    LMFAO what exactly are you referencing? Those Celtics were so inept offensively until they completely inverted their offense by pairing KG and Bass together, 2 players who looked extensively to finish outlet opportunities created by Rondo. These are the kind of comparisons that make me question just how much you understand basketball. I mean the Celtics put KG at the 5 because it gave the team 4 FLOOR SPACERS for Rondo. We are going to have nilch in terms of spacing from our frontcourt and now from our Point of attack with these moves, a truly horrible outlook IMO.

    Again why do I need stats when I haven't missed a Clippers game for 10 plus years?
    You need facts of any kind. Statistical evidence is pretty important when making projections and quantifiable accusations like "hes holding our bigs back".

    Besides its not about how much of the Clippers you watch, but how many games outside of LA you watch and how you back your arguments. I've seen many absurd statements from you in this very thread to last a life time.

    Blake's improved enough to offset much of the stat difference but Baron and Griffin had more synergy and when non Clippers fans are observing something subtle like that it's most likely valid.
    What stat difference? I really dont see any reason to trust your statistical projections given you talk alot without any sort of insight.
    Last edited by Chronz; 12-01-2012 at 04:58 AM.
    Yo Kobe, get at me bro, we'd have a good time, man

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddler The Gr8 View Post
    just the games i was able to watch. He was driving more and looked way more aggressive. now he's taking so much jumpers
    Not trying to ride you but he was more effective in the paint (shooting 63% vs 69 with CP3) and he got there with slightly more regularity and getting blocked less frequently despite seemingly less fast break opportunities given the slower pace. Not to mention his increased efficiency in 1 on 1 sets, so something isnt adding up here.
    Last edited by Chronz; 12-01-2012 at 05:17 AM.
    Yo Kobe, get at me bro, we'd have a good time, man

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clippersfan86 View Post
    Method you guys keep blindly zooming in on Rondo vs CP3 when my main point is Rondo PACKAGE and significantly more cap flex with many good free agents to plus the SF and SG hole we have. Billups is 35, Crawford 32 and Vinny is too stupid to play Bledsoe at SG. Butler is 32, Hill 40 and Barnes 31. None of these guys will remain,starting caliber for more than two years. This move sets us up better for the future.

    I'm not saying it should be done but I personally am for it if CP3 and Blake don't figure it out and develop more chemistry. There is no natural flow to the duo. Everything seems forced. Watch the Clippers win in Utah last year if you want to see how they should play every night. Both had 30 and 10 and ran PNR to perfection all night. It baffles me that the coaches haven't shown them footage and said do this every single game. If they have then the players need to wake up.
    One problem, CP3 wont go to Boston, hes already proven that. And if your suggesting we just trade him like that then I would hope you understand what a downgrade it would represent, with no promise of luring a great free agent, particularly now that we've shown we are willing to dump the guy who led us to our best season. And if we absorb guys like Green then were are essentially adding more crap on top of an inferior player, no thanks.

    I know Vinny has the rep of a dunce but you have to figure the game is more complicated than that. Maybe Blake is limited, teams are throwing more zones at them, maybe hes trying to get the other guys acclimated knowing that the team has already proven capable of winning alot of regular season games by running a simplistic offense and doesnt want to rely on it as much.
    Yo Kobe, get at me bro, we'd have a good time, man

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clippersfan86 View Post
    Rondo is a guy you hate unless he's on your team. His attitude problems are greatly exaggerated. Give me that old school fire in a player over the CP3 type that compliments no matter what any day. Nobody is CP3 with avoiding turnovers but Rondo is no Westbrook. As for defense Chronz Rondo is a better man defender as shown by Drtg and Synergy and CP3 actually gambles more than Rondo on D.
    You mean aside from this year right because thus far CP3 has the better DRTG. Still your probably right on this one but Rondo's DRTG is completely a product of KG as it sinks when hes not on the floor. CP3 has no such relationship with any of our players.

    RAPM has them at identical levels the last few years.

    But Synergy?


    Last year Rondo allowed .74PPP overall, .58 in Isolation, .71 in PnR sets, and thats with the best PnR hedger in the game
    Year before: .79, .67, .81 respectively



    VS CP3
    .8PPP overall, .67 in isolation and .8 in PnR with a poor defensive structure behind him. DJ is much improved but Blake was still green and neither are KG.


    Still I suppose the evidence is in your favor
    Yo Kobe, get at me bro, we'd have a good time, man

  6. #51
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    Why do you make a thread to prop up J-Crossover only to bash him now? I think your too emotionally driven when it comes to this topic.

    Only thing we agree on, Blake and Bledsoe need to play alot more together. Even throw CP3 in there. Blake has thrived more this season with those fast breaking opportunities, which is why I dont really see the need for Rondo when Bledso can approximate that far more than Rondo could execute a half court offense to CP3's level of efficiency. Dont forget what wins in the playoffs.

    If Rondo were the better fit because he doesn't look to score, why wouldnt Team USA want him to set up shots for all their stars? Why did Boston want CP3? Why cant Rondo lead an effective offense despite world class shooters, why is his efficiency lacking despite his smaller load? Too many holes to buy your theory.
    Last edited by Chronz; 12-01-2012 at 05:22 AM.
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  7. #52
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    Rubio>>>>Paul

    With Rubio over Paul,Blake would be leading scorer and most dominant Power forward in the NBA

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Why do you make a thread to prop up J-Crossover only to bash him now? I think your too emotionally driven when it comes to this topic.

    Only thing we agree on, Blake and Bledsoe need to play alot more together. Even throw CP3 in there. Blake has thrived more this season with those fast breaking opportunities, which is why I dont really see the need for Rondo when Bledso can approximate that far more than Rondo could execute a half court offense to CP3's level of efficiency. Dont forget what wins in the playoffs.

    If Rondo were the better fit because he doesn't look to score, why wouldnt Team USA want him to set up shots for all their stars? Why did Boston want CP3? Why cant Rondo lead an effective offense despite world class shooters, why is his efficiency lacking despite his smaller load? Too many holes to buy your theory.
    Naw I love Crawford. I never bashed him? My issue is that CP3 is deferring to him and depending on him WAY too much along with Butler and our other wings. The offense needs to run through our bigs FIRST then our perimeter players. We aren't a good enough shooting team to be playing this iso, 3 point shot crap every time down the floor.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Not trying to ride you but he was more effective in the paint (shooting 63% vs 69 with CP3) and he got there with slightly more regularity and getting blocked less frequently despite seemingly less fast break opportunities given the slower pace. Not to mention his increased efficiency in 1 on 1 sets, so something isnt adding up here.
    maybe im focusing on point and rebounding totals too much then because I remember him having alot more efficient 30 and 40 point games back in 2010


  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clippersfan86 View Post
    Naw I love Crawford. I never bashed him?
    My mistake, it sounded like you were blaming him for Blake not getting enough touches. Because you do realize hes the one eating up most of the possessions on the team right. Not that it seems to effect Blake much, hes been off regardless.


    My issue is that CP3 is deferring to him and depending on him WAY too much along with Butler and our other wings. The offense needs to run through our bigs FIRST then our perimeter players. We aren't a good enough shooting team to be playing this iso, 3 point shot crap every time down the floor.
    I think your underestimating just how many more post attempts our bigs are getting and how it has led to some of those 3's. With DJ's improvements, our # of actual post up shots for the team is higher than it was last year.

    I honestly dont know what more you want, do you want more clear outs for Blake, more post-ups? You do know its not as easy as just force feeding post plays right? Your all over the place with what you project for Blake in this thread but can we atleast clear up how you want the offense to look?

    Because to be honest, if its what I think you want, for us to feature Blake on the block in more stagnant sets, then we would be worse for it with Blakes current level of play. His stats are down across the board, and BTW if your really suggesting its a result of him not having the right PG then your doing his game a disservice. Your basically hes saying hes more dependent on who he plays with than Amare Stoudemire was with Nash. Id rather believe hes hurt and thus hasn't been entrusted with the same responsibility otherwise hes slacking on the boards for no reason other than to pout. Because honestly hes getting alot of possessions, hes our most prolific possession waster and he constantly takes too long to react to plays that arent lobs. Hes played like crap and I really wish you would just man up to it instead of looking for a scapegoat because it really only exposes Blake.

    Anyways, that tangent aside, we would be losing alot more if we force fed Blake the way he has played. Like you said, hes been at his best when on the run in transition. Our transition offense has thrived, but why is his halfcourt game slacking?

    Check out the numbers for the last 2 years:

    2012
    Isolation: 13.4% (.86) #2
    Spot-Up: 22.% (.98) #7
    Post-Ups: 8.9% (.82) #19
    PnR (BallHandler): 15.3% (.86) #2
    (Roller): 5.6% (1.02) #6

    Transition: 12% (1.1) #24
    Offensive rebounding: 5.9% (1.03) #20
    Cuts off the ball : 6.2% (1.24) #6

    OVR: .93 (6th)

    2013
    Isolation: 15.5% (.83) #9
    Spot-Up: 18.8% (1.09) #4
    Post-Ups: 10.8% (.86) #10
    PnR (BallHandler): 12.0% (.85) #5
    (Roller): 3.7% (.84) #24

    Transition: 14.4% (1.19) #8
    Offensive rebounding: 5.7% (1.1) #13
    Cuts off the ball : 6.4% (1.2) #13

    OVR: .95PPP (6th)


    So yes, Iso attempts are up but thats what Crawford was suppose to bring remember. Thats supposedly what our team needed and in fairness to him, hes been excellent, I want him to reign it in and feature Blake alil more but at the same time Blake hasn't earned any more looks.

    Check out Blake's statline (Ive bolded the interesting aspects)


    2012
    Isolation: 10.1% (.78) #95
    Spot-Up: 9.2% (.80) #248
    Post-Ups: 33.% (.83) #71
    PnR Roller: 14.6% (1.08) #39

    Transition: 9.8% (1.42) #14
    Offensive rebounding: 8.2% (1.12)
    Cuts off the ball : 9% (1.43) #16


    OVR: .99PPP





    2013
    Isolation: 12.5% (.63) #46
    Spot-Up: 11.4% (.88) #106
    Post-Ups: 35.% (.85) #26
    PnR Roller: 10.4% (.83) #34 :cry:

    Transition: 12.5% (1.49) #4
    Offensive rebounding: 4.6% (.92)
    Cuts off the ball : 5.7% (.88)

    OVR: .89




    So lets review the changes (Aside from minutes, which only Vinny and fouls control) focusing solely on his possession usage. Blake has gotten more post feeds (consistent with our 2 bigs getting more post ups), hes gotten more isolation attempts (while scoring at a drastically lower rate) and his finishes in the PnR have been stifled both in efficiency and usage. So whats the problem? Why is he so inefficient this year compared to last? Surprsingly it has nothing to do with CP3 and everything to do with his instincts/athleticism. Hes taking too long to make his move when hes not creating on his own, his hands have been terrible this year too.


    The man isnt crashing the offensive glass and when he does his finishes are FAR less effective than a year ago.

    I mean is CP3 also responsible for his lack of assertiveness? I think its time you faced reality and started pointing the finger at the person responsible.
    Last edited by Chronz; 12-01-2012 at 01:39 PM.
    Yo Kobe, get at me bro, we'd have a good time, man

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddler The Gr8 View Post
    maybe im focusing on point and rebounding totals too much then because I remember him having alot more efficient 30 and 40 point games back in 2010
    Definitely, the league was anemic offensively because of the lockout, it dragged numbers down league wide so the fact that he improved at all was a great sign.


    Also you were saying he was more of a go to option right? Well I usually take that to mean a player who is given the ball and asked to create. Maybe your talking about how often he was spoonfed and featured vs rotating defenses. Because depending on which version of the Clippers you saw his rookie year could lead to different answers. When he was with Baron he got more lobs and such but I didnt think you meant that he was a better go to option because he got to play with Baron, I thought you were talking about his ability to create for himself and others. That has definitely improved.
    Yo Kobe, get at me bro, we'd have a good time, man

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakers4life08 View Post
    Rubio>>>>Paul

    With Rubio over Paul,Blake would be leading scorer and most dominant Power forward in the NBA
    And the Clippers would suffer how many more losses? Why does Rubio not have this impact with his stud PF?
    Yo Kobe, get at me bro, we'd have a good time, man

  13. #58
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    I tried, but wasn't able to make it through all of the cronz posts. really wish you would pare it down from time to time.

  14. #59
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    pare
    Yo Kobe, get at me bro, we'd have a good time, man

  15. #60
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    Chronz good stats and I respect the time you put into them. If you've seen me post on this topic more on the Clippers forum and here you'd see I actually have blasted Blake every other game for being too passive. That being said CP3 is the veteran leader, best player, superstar, floor general and POINT GUARD. He commands the floor so I feel he can do a lot more to get our bigs involved.

    Blake being passive is likely due to the injury issues and him being mentally weaker than I thought. He seems to be so focused on proving critics wrong that he's improved all of the knocks tremendously BUT neglected his strengths in the process. His rebounding is down because he's shooting too many damn jumpers. His scoring is down because jumpers are ALWAYS a lower percentage shot than a dunk or rim attack and he's getting less free throws.

    He needs to understand that the shot should be secondary to space the floor a bit and NEVER his MAIN weapon. He's not Dirk, he needs to be Barkley/Malone. Go hard in the paint but be capable of hitting shots, never depending on it.
    Last edited by Clippersfan86; 12-01-2012 at 05:12 PM.

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