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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by vladdy#27 View Post
    Mathis trade
    Iannetta trade
    Frieri trade
    Greinke trade
    Santana trade
    Mathis trade - insignificant
    Iannetta trade - OK
    Frieri trade - good
    Grienke trade - equal to Teixera trade
    Santana trade - undetermined

    There was also the unexplainable Bobby Abreu incident, where he refused a trade with Cleveland because they wanted us to eat too much salary, and instead released him 2 weeks later and ate 100% of the salary (minus the pro-rated minimum)

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.P. View Post
    There was also the unexplainable Bobby Abreu incident, where he refused a trade with Cleveland because they wanted us to eat too much salary, and instead released him 2 weeks later and ate 100% of the salary (minus the pro-rated minimum)
    Lets not forget that he traded Abreu to the Yankees for AJ Burnett (who was very good last year) but Burnett declined it

    And the fact that he got Wilson for about 23M less than what other teams offered should not be overlooked
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by vladdy#27 View Post
    And the fact that he got Wilson for about 23M less than what other teams offered should not be overlooked
    May as well give DiPoto credit for making California a nice place to live.

    I'm willing to give Jer another chance, no one and done of course, but last years team missing the postseason? whew, despite under performances from Santana and Haren, the main misfunction was that Hawkins and Isringhausen were slotted into key roles and failed miserably. Looks like he's learning from his mistakes already.
    Last edited by S.P.; 11-30-2012 at 02:20 PM.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.P. View Post
    May as well give DiPoto credit for making California a nice place to live.
    The other place was Miami
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by vladdy#27 View Post
    The other place was Miami
    Where CJ Wilson was not born in.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.P. View Post
    Where CJ Wilson was not born in.
    Something tells me 23M is a lot better than being in California for an extra 3 months per year
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by vladdy#27 View Post
    Something tells me 23M is a lot better than being in California for an extra 3 months per year
    Maybe DiPoto threw in a tug job?

  8. #23
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    Per @mlbbowman, here's what #Braves GM Frank Wren said about Tommy Hanson's 2012 season: “Tommy’s velocity was down a little bit. But he wasn’t hurt. I think he started transitioning to a different kind of pitcher. I think that’s what we saw over the last several years. I think he was trying to pitch with a little less velocity and use his offspeed stuff more. I think that was just the kind of starting pitcher he was turning into.”
    .
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.P. View Post
    Maybe DiPoto threw in a tug job?
    Thats definitely how we got Pujols, I dont know about Wilson though
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  10. 11-30-2012, 03:55 PM
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    baiting

  11. #25
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    Hanson, on being traded for first time and joining his hometown team: "I am super excited, but I am going to miss my teammates."
    Tommy Hanson was on his way to Craig Kimbrel's wedding when called about trade. was "shocked" initially, then "excited."
    Dipoto: "It’s a deal that looks to help both sides and those are the types you like to make." Hanson, like Madson, grew up an #Angels fan.
    I grew up an Angels fan, and I dont really have any plans for February-October

    Tommy Hanson said velocity drop due to lingering issues from rotator cuff, back injuries in 2011. Lack of strength in 2nd 1/2 2012.
    Hanson said his decline in '12 was because injuries in '11 affected his offseason routine and he wore down.
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  12. #26
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    Like it!!

  13. #27
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    Tommy Hanson was on his way to Craig Kimbrel's wedding when called about trade. was "shocked" initially, then "excited."
    Just to be clear, not excited about the trade, excited that Kimbrel's wife's bridesmaids are sluts.

  14. #28
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    Angels Replace Risky Dan Haren with Risky Tommy Hanson

    Some time ago, the Angels attempted to trade Dan Haren to the Cubs in exchange for Carlos Marmol. The Angels had concerns about Haren, and wanted to turn him into something useful. The Cubs had concerns about Marmol, and wanted to turn him into something useful. On paper, the deal looked lopsided in the Cubsí favor, and so one had to consider that maybe the Angels knew something scary about Harenís medicals. Sure enough, the deal fell through, and now Haren is a free agent looking for a short-term contract. No oneís going to be ballsy enough to give him a long-term contract.

    Friday, the Angels completed sort of the opposite of that Haren/Marmol trade. Instead of the Angels dealing a troubled starter to get a troubled reliever, theyíve dealt the somewhat troubled Jordan Walden to the Braves in exchange for the troubled Tommy Hanson. Unlike with Haren, we donít have to speculate that something might be up with Hanson, physically ó we know that his shoulder has been groaning. The Angels, without question, know that theyíre taking a chance, here. They determined, at the cost of Jordan Walden, the chance is worth taking.

    One of the worst-kept secrets in baseball is that the Angels have been desperate for starters. Itís been a poorly-kept secret because it wasnít really intended to be a secret. They dealt away Ervin Santana, they let Dan Haren become a free agent, and they lost Zack Greinke to free agency. From the beginning, word was the Angels badly wanted to get Greinke re-signed, but more recently thereís been talk that the Dodgers are the front-runners, with the Nationals another possibility. Until Greinke makes a decision, we canít say much of anything, but Greinke re-signing has been far from a guarantee, and the Angels were left with four starters on their depth chart. Two of those starters are Jerome Williams and Garrett Richards. The Angels would like to contend, and in order to contend, the Angels needed to address their starting pitching.

    The question, then, is exactly how much better Tommy Hanson makes them. He makes them at least a little better, because heís a fifth starting pitcher on the roster. Previously there was no one in that slot. But thereís a reason the Braves didnít have Hanson in their projected rotation, and thereís a reason the Braves gave him up for a reliever, even though heís under team control another three years. The Tommy Hanson that exists now is similar in many ways to the Tommy Hanson that used to exist before, but when it comes to pitching, there are alarming differences.

    Before 2009, Hanson was Baseball Americaís fourth-best prospect in the league. Even now, the rightyís only 26, and he just started 31 games for a contending team. The prospect status and initial success gave Hanson lingering name value, but heís been of dwindling actual value. Heís battled through shoulder discomfort that correlates to an expected velocity drop:

    2009: 92.3 mph average fastball
    2010: 92.7
    2011: 91.2
    2012: 89.7

    Hanson hasnít been treated surgically. We canít definitively tie the softening fastball to the softening shoulder. But it makes a lot of sense, and it doesnít bode super well going forward. One should note that Hansonís always drawn some criticism for his mechanics.

    Some people who think they know about these things donít like Hansonís throwing motion, and he does seem to begin slowly before exploding later on. It stands to reason thereís probably something deceptive about his forearm action, but maybe this has been doing Hanson harm. Maybe something else. Hanson hasnít had surgery yet, but heís gotten worse, and we donít know if heís done getting worse.

    Whatís important, of course, isnít Hansonís average fastball velocity. Thatís relevant only insofar as it suggests other things, and what we care about are Hansonís results when heís pitching. Interestingly, his contact rate hasnít really been getting worse. His strikeouts in 2012 were basically the same as they were in 2009 and 2010, when he threw harder. Batted balls are the same, albeit lately there have been more dingers. Hansonís strike rate is down, though, implying worse command. He might be making more mistakes, and he might have less of a margin of error for those mistakes. He just posted a below-average ERA, a below-average FIP, and a below-average xFIP. His xFIP was actually tied with Ervin Santanaís. That Hanson used to be a tippy-top prospect doesnít matter anymore. We know a lot more about him than we used to.

    Pitchers lose velocity as they age. Bill Petti and Jeff Zimmerman have examined this at length. Hansonís velocity probably isnít coming back, and there could be something more sinister than simple aging going on. By performance, most recently Tommy Hanson was mediocre. By various indicators, he could be approaching a fairly significant DL stint. As is, he looks like a capable back-of-the-rotation starter, and he could bounce back to some degree, but heís going to a more difficult league and the indicators are worrisome. The Angels will hope that thereís meaning in Hansonís final six 2012 starts, over which he generated 35 strikeouts against just ten walks.

    Going the other way is Jordan Walden, and at least for the Angels, Walden wonít feel like much of a loss at all. After beginning the 2012 season as the Angelsí closer, Walden was quickly demoted, and after a midseason DL trip, Walden wound up relegated to low-leverage, infrequent relief. It seems meaningful that the Angels both wanted to improve their bullpen this offseason, and were extremely willing to send Jordan Walden somewhere else. Walden must not have been a favorite of theirs.

    Yet the numbers are fine. Walden was, statistically, the same pitcher in 2012 as he was in 2011, and in 2011 he was an All-Star closer. He still threw hard, he still missed bats, and he still issued a few too many walks. Walden has his blemishes, but as always, itís the overall results that matter most, and heís been a better-than-average reliever. With a weird and unique throwing motion of his own:

    Itís worth noting that Waldenís own average fastball velocity has dropped more than two ticks since breaking in in 2010. Itís still up there, though, and the results speak for themselves. Walden will clearly be behind Craig Kimbrel and Jonny Venters on the Bravesí bullpen depth chart, but he fits in the sixth and seventh innings, and he can help to shorten games. As Hanson is going to a more challenging league, Waldenís going to an easier one, so he could be of real value, even as a middle reliever. And for whatever itís worth, heís under contract another four years.

    As a simple rule of thumb, itís oftentimes a good move to deal a reliever for a starter. As another simple rule of thumb, one shouldnít stick to simple rule of thumbs, because everything should be treated on a case-by-case basis. The Angels pretty clearly werenít big on Walden, so they added a talented starting pitcher effectively for free. The Braves pretty clearly werenít big on Hanson, so they added a talented relief pitcher effectively for free, freeing up payroll space to go after another outfielder. The Angels had their reasons for being down on Walden and the Braves had their reasons for being down on Hanson, and the Bravesí reasons strike me as being more compelling. Hansonís been throwing slower, heís been getting worse, and I donít know why we should believe those trends are going to stop. Hansonís top-prospect days are well behind him.

    Itís not a bad trade for the Angels, who just needed a starter. Itís not a bad trade for the Braves, who had no use for Hanson. Middle relievers can be only so valuable. But these days, the same could be said of Tommy Hanson, and after adding one starter, you better believe the Angels are still going to be looking for another, better one.
    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...-tommy-hanson/
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  15. #29
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    apparntly Jiar Jurjens is getting cut, he will probably pitch in the WBC for holland and try to regain value, but both guys are only 26

  16. #30
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    I love this trade. It gives us a solid #4 starter with a lot of upside at essentially no monetary cost in exchange for an inconsistent reliever that no longer had a place in this bullpen. Since he has such a low salary, it doesn't affect the pursuit of Greinke and/or Marcum, McCarthy, etc. AND it allows DiPoto to keep looking for more good bullpen pieces like Fujikawa, Adams and Wilson.
    Last edited by BigGuy951; 11-30-2012 at 07:11 PM.

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