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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Poor control?

    2.71 K/BB


    Sign me up for someone as poor control

    Dude... I watch about 140-150 Angel games a year, and can say Walden is straight up extreemly ineffective. I loved his potential when he was coming up, but he cannot be relied upon on any clutch moment. I am not saying I am in love with Hanson, but any Angel fan will tell you that he got relegated to mop up work because 7th, 8th, and 9th inning responsibility was too much for the kid. I'll take a relativily cheap 4th/5th starter with upside than a kid with one pitch that he cannot control.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalconsNation02 View Post
    Dude... I watch about 140-150 Angel games a year, and can say Walden is straight up extreemly ineffective. I loved his potential when he was coming up, but he cannot be relied upon on any clutch moment. I am not saying I am in love with Hanson, but any Angel fan will tell you that he got relegated to mop up work because 7th, 8th, and 9th inning responsibility was too much for the kid. I'll take a relativily cheap 4th/5th starter with upside than a kid with one pitch that he cannot control.
    He was 11th in WPA out of 17 relievers in 2012
    3rd out of 17 relievers in 2011
    and even though he didn't pitch much, he was 5th out of 15 in 2010.

    He isn't necessarily 'unclutch'

    He seems to get the job done when needed, although 2012 was clearly not as good as 2011.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalconsNation02 View Post
    Dude... I watch about 140-150 Angel games a year, and can say Walden is straight up extreemly ineffective. I loved his potential when he was coming up, but he cannot be relied upon on any clutch moment. I am not saying I am in love with Hanson, but any Angel fan will tell you that he got relegated to mop up work because 7th, 8th, and 9th inning responsibility was too much for the kid. I'll take a relativily cheap 4th/5th starter with upside than a kid with one pitch that he cannot control.
    Are you a scout? Because if not, i don't care what you saw because numbers proves you are wrong.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by beldugo View Post
    Are you a scout? Because if not, i don't care what you saw because numbers proves you are wrong.
    that's not nice

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by beldugo View Post
    Are you a scout? Because if not, i don't care what you saw because numbers proves you are wrong.
    No, I'm not a scout, just a huge angel fan that watches 150 games a year since 1994, and season ticket holder since 99'. Good luck with your "stats". People who actually saw this guy blow game after game, then relegated to mop up duty, knows this guy just simply doesn't have what it takes. I feel bad because I have met him and shook his hand on multiple occassions out at events he was at, but it is what it is. Good luck

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalconsNation02 View Post
    No, I'm not a scout, just a huge angel fan that watches 150 games a year since 1994, and season ticket holder since 99'. Good luck with your "stats". People who actually saw this guy blow game after game, then relegated to mop up duty, knows this guy just simply doesn't have what it takes. I feel bad because I have met him and shook his hand on multiple occassions out at events he was at, but it is what it is. Good luck
    sorry for my response, i was having a bad day, i know stats aren't everything, but seems i haven't seen him pitch regularly it's all i got and some Angels fans has been saying that he sucks but, no one has show me a stat that proves it.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by beldugo View Post
    sorry for my response, i was having a bad day, i know stats aren't everything, but seems i haven't seen him pitch regularly it's all i got and some Angels fans has been saying that he sucks but, no one has show me a stat that proves it.
    No worries man. I think its a good trade for both teams... basically depth for depth. I hope Walden performs well for the Braves.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fly View Post
    god you're the worst

    Coming soon to a TKRO stadium near you

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Poor control?

    2.71 K/BB


    Sign me up for someone as poor control
    Ahh when metrics go wrong.Falling behind 3-1 and then grooving a straight fastball is also a sign of poor control.Walden loves to do that. 4.15 /BB9 and .312 Babip illustrate the control issue more clearly. The real problem for Walden is he can't throw any secondary pitches for a strike. That's the case for several Angels relievers so it could be a system issue that maybe the Braves can sort out. If they can Walden could be effective.
    Last edited by fresh prince; 12-05-2012 at 06:03 AM.
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  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by fresh prince View Post
    Ahh when metrics go wrong.Falling behind 3-1 and then grooving a straight fastball is also a sign of poor control.Walden loves to do that.
    that means poor command, not poor control. And he obviously has the command to throw a 3-1 pitch across the plate, so the issue isn't command/control, but rather his ability to pitch overall that you are complaining about.


    4.15 /BB9 and .312 Babip illustrate the control issue more clearly.
    Babip has nothing to do with control, at all.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    that means poor command, not poor control. And he obviously has the command to throw a 3-1 pitch across the plate, so the issue isn't command/control, but rather his ability to pitch overall that you are complaining about.



    Babip has nothing to do with control, at all.
    Yea it does if you cant locate pitches youre going to give up more hits and more firm contact. Walden also allows a fairly high LD Rate. Its the result of falling behing and then as you so acurately described throwing a 3-1 pitch "across the plate" instead of locating the pitch inside or outside.

    BABIP is so grossly misinterpreted.
    Last edited by fresh prince; 12-05-2012 at 04:28 PM.
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  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by fresh prince View Post
    Yea it does if you cant locate pitches youre going to give up more hits and more firm contact. Walden also allows a fairly high LD Rate. Its the result of falling behing and then as you so acurately described throwing a 3-1 pitch "across the plate" instead of locating the pitch inside or outside.

    BABIP is so grossly misinterpreted.
    It's simply the average on balls in play.

    If you want to isolate 3-1 counts and things like that, you can.


    His control and his command are two different things.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    It's simply the average on balls in play.

    If you want to isolate 3-1 counts and things like that, you can.


    His control and his command are two different things.
    Im aware of what the acronym stands for. Its not simply average on balls in play IMO there is a reason why a dudes BABIP is high or low. Its an overlooked AND misinterpreted metric. Often merely chalked up to luck. When for a pitcher allowing a low BABIP consistently is generally a result of command/ control. That combined with movement and changing speeds is what makes pitchers hard to hit.

    Walden does none of those other things well. He is a one trick pony (Velocity).
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  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by fresh prince View Post
    Im aware of what the acronym stands for. Its not simply average on balls in play IMO there is a reason why a dudes BABIP is high or low. Its an overlooked AND misinterpreted metric. Often merely chalked up to luck.
    It is often times misinterpreted, but the reasons for it to be low or high can be found.

    Line drive rates, ground ball, fly ball rates, velocity of contact off the bat, speed of the runner etc. There isn't an isolation for what it can and can not do. That's why....it is very simply, just the average of balls that are in play.

    When for a pitcher allowing a low BABIP consistently is generally a result of command/ control. That combined with movement and changing speeds is what makes pitchers hard to hit.
    I think you are trying to extend babip to command and control, and it doesn't really have much to do with control, but it can with command.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by fresh prince View Post
    Im aware of what the acronym stands for. Its not simply average on balls in play IMO there is a reason why a dudes BABIP is high or low. Its an overlooked AND misinterpreted metric. Often merely chalked up to luck. When for a pitcher allowing a low BABIP consistently is generally a result of command/ control. That combined with movement and changing speeds is what makes pitchers hard to hit.

    Walden does none of those other things well. He is a one trick pony (Velocity).
    By and large, BABIP is based on luck when you're dealing with major league pitchers because their talent level is so high. Of course if you or I pitched we'd have a BABIP of .800 or more.

    Naturally some pitchers have different BABIPs because of their profile (e.g. groundballers have higher BABIPs because ground balls are more likely to be hits than fly balls). But by and large, a BABIP of .311 for a single season is just not indicative of anything really. I mean the league average BABIP last year was .297. That's hardly a difference at all.

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