Enough is enough...Papa's GTG

[hoog]

I hated it when he came back and I'm furious now. It's 3 games now that he's cost us and he has got to be sent out to pasture. I can't take any more of the Papa Grande crap! There are plenty of options, costly and not costly, that we can take and need to take right away. Here's some that I have come up with:

Most costly (meaning a good prospect or more):
Casey Janssen, Toronto- only 31 and has two years back to back of decent closing. Toronto is out of it already and will need to lower payroll and look for young players. I see Rondon and another top 10 prospect (Steven Moya?) but could be more to get him. If so then move on.

Kevin Gregg, Cubs- Has shown he can be a closer. He may cost as much as Janssen but we could probably get away with giving up younger prospects.

Medium cost:
Mike Gonzalez, Milwakee- older, LH, but is still shutting people down. Has closing experience. Due to age he may not cost too much at all.

Brandon Lyon, NY Mets- Has closed and is familiar with Detroit. Wouldn't be bad at all to renew ourselves with him. Not closing right now but would be the best we would have on the roster.

Jose Veras, Houston- the Astro's have him over priced right now and he is really an option to be the 8th inning guy and move Benoit to closer but it's an option if they come down in price.

Low Cost:
Chad Qualls, Miami- older guy on a building team. Is having a very good year and could take over as the 8th inning guy and let Benoit close.

Mike Dunn, Miami- another guy that Miami doesn't really have long range plans for so he could be had for a decent price. He's and outstanding situation guy but I think he can be more than that with his arm.

These are just a few I came up with real quick so I'm sure there are more available. Let's hope Dave see's the need and reacts soon.

[ahoda]

Hoog, did you read this before posting that by chance? If not, you're a freaking physic.


http://espn.go.com/blog/buster-olney...fit-in-detroit

[StriveGreatness]

Smyly should be the closer. No need to trade for one.

[lizardking13]

Hoog, did you read this before posting that by chance? If not, you're a freaking physic.


http://espn.go.com/blog/buster-olney...fit-in-detroit

That would be very interesting. Wouldn't cost much either I think.

[hoog]

Hoog, did you read this before posting that by chance? If not, you're a freaking physic.


http://espn.go.com/blog/buster-olney...fit-in-detroit

Wow that is F'ing amazing! I did not read this before posting. I went to bed pissed woke up looked around the cellar dwellers of the league and came up with my list. Funny that two of us can throw that together and Dave hasn't yet.

[hoog]

Smyly should be the closer. No need to trade for one.

SG, although I'd consider him a huge upgrade, he's just not a closer. If he made that move he'd get killed by RH batters. I like him where he is and as a starter in the near future.

[lizardking13]

Ahoda, can you post the whole article? Or pm it maybe?

[GuySir]

SG, although I'd consider him a huge upgrade, he's just not a closer. If he made that move he'd get killed by RH batters. I like him where he is and as a starter in the near future.

Is there a reason a LHP would get killed by right handed hitters in the 9th inning but not the rest of the game? I'm not really advocating Smyly for closer (although I wouldn't be opposed to giving him a shot either), it's just the logic doesn't seem right to me.

[LionsFan..LOL]

I'd take Paplebon easily over Valturde

[Alfonso_Smith]

Porcello should close. He has the pitches, and is a groundball pitcher. His thing is that he is usually very good the first time through the order, and then after that is when the wheels come off. So the first time a guy see's him in a game would be in the 9th. If he can learn to strike a few more batters out, he could be a good closer. At this point, what is the harm in trying? If I was DD, Id be very hesitant to deal Castellanos and Garcia. They really are the future of the OF if an extension is going to get done with Cabrera. They need the cheap talent those two offer

[tigers.6]

Casey Janssen, Toronto- only 31 and has two years back to back of decent closing. Toronto is out of it already and will need to lower payroll and look for young players. I see Rondon and another top 10 prospect (Steven Moya?) but could be more to get him. If so then move on.

I would not be willing to trade Rondon this early in his career for a 31 year old pitcher.

I also don't think trading for Paplebon is a smart move, he has way too much money associated with him. Although I would love it because he is a much better upgrade than Valverde, I don't think its going to happen.

I really feel that they need to give Smyly and Benoit more opportunities to close, see how they do. Throw in different pitchers and see how it goes. Hell, when the playoffs come we could try Porcello in the closing role. Not a complete fan of that though due to the amount of hits he gives up

[Alfonso_Smith]

I agree. Stay far away from Papelbon. Way too much money left on his contract. They cant afford to keep bringing on those contracts

[smarkow]

Ahoda, can you post the whole article? Or pm it maybe?

Through eight innings and two outs in the bottom of the ninth inning, it was all good for the Detroit Tigers in Kansas City on Wednesday. Justin Verlander threw seven scoreless innings, Prince Fielder drove in another run and the Tigers were literally one strike away from tacking onto their lead in the AL Central.

There is so much to like about the Tigers this year, a rival evaluator said earlier in the day -- their rotation is outstanding, they have a really good offense and their outfield defense mitigates some of the problems created by their infield defense. The evaluator noted that in his team’s internal metrics the Tigers are the best team in the majors, and by a significant margin.

There is just one problem: The guy charged with getting the last outs of games isn’t getting enough outs.

All of the Tigers’ good work Wednesday unraveled when Jose Valverde gave up a game-tying home run to Lorenzo Cain with two outs in the ninth inning, and then Detroit lost in extra innings, a gut-wrencher. Valverde acknowledged afterward that he hung the pitch to Cain, but Jim Leyland was in no mood to talk about Valverde’s role moving forward, Tom Gage writes:
An irritated Jim Leyland was a strike away from having a normal postgame news conference instead of cutting it short after 1 1/2 minutes because reporters were "late" to his office ... when they weren’t.

It can’t be said, however, Leyland was in no mood to answer a question about Valverde.

"It was a high split," he said about the home run pitch. "It didn’t split too good and the kid hit it out of the ballpark.

"He left it up out over the plate."

And he paid the price for it.

But so did the Tigers, which is what concerns Leyland most.
Here he is with a closer that no matter how much the Tigers want to think is reliable, isn’t.
Valverde has blown three saves in 12 opportunities. But the last four times he’s pitched have been scary.

From ESPN Stats & Info: How Valverde blew the save:
A) Cain's game-tying homer came on a splitter from Valverde, the only non-fastball Valverde threw during his outing.
B) Valverde has thrown 20 splitters in his past six games and allowed three home runs among those 20 pitches. He allowed no hits on the 21 splitters he threw in his first 12 appearances of the season.

Hitters went 3-for-39 with zero home runs against Valverde in his first 12 outings of the season, and are 10-for-27 with five homers in his past six appearances.

If there was a simple and easy alternative to Valverde, the Tigers would find it, because the marching orders from owner Mike Ilitch are simple: Win a championship. When Victor Martinez got hurt two winters ago, Detroit didn’t replace him with a combination of journeymen and internal options; the Tigers spent more than $200 million on Price Fielder. When it looked like Anibal Sanchez might sign with the Cubs last winter, the Tigers stepped up and paid Sanchez like a No. 1 starter, even though they already have two of those in Verlander and Max Scherzer. In the summer of 2011, GM David Dombrowski made one of the most aggressive and adept trades of the year in prying Doug Fister away from the Seattle Mariners. So nobody can accuse the Tigers of not being proactive.

But the simple fact is that there are very, very few relief options available to them in the market.

I asked some rival evaluators who have a feel for the trade market about the closer candidates who could be available before the July 31 trade deadline, and the response was: Not much, at all.

Sure, you could call the Astros about 32-year-old Jose Veras, who has 11 saves this year, and the Mets aren’t playing for anything this year, so they’d listen on Brandon Lyon. Kevin Gregg, perhaps. Mike Gonzalez.

Jesse Crain is having a dominant season for the White Sox, with an 0.60 ERA and 39 strikeouts in 30 innings. He is in the last year of his three-year deal with Chicago, making $4.5 million this year. "I know he hasn’t closed yet," wrote one official, "but I don’t know why he couldn’t do it."

But for the Tigers, he might be off limits; in order for Detroit to land him, the White Sox would have to be willing to swap one of their best relievers to an archrival with more than two months to go in the regular season. Good luck with that.

If Toronto drifts once and for all, then maybe you could make a deal for Casey Janssen, who could be the focus of a lot of teams looking for bullpen help; he can fill any role, and he is respected for the way he competes, and throws strikes. Janssen has issued just three walks and has 21 strikeouts in 20 2/3 innings, and he has a $4 million team option for 2014, which won’t scare anybody away.

But as one of the evaluators noted, if you’re in Detroit’s position -- with a championship-caliber rotation and a championship-caliber lineup -- then you’re going to want a guy with the stuff to crush hitters in Octobers, and Janssen is more about moxie than velocity, given his average fastball of 89.9 mph.

Pitchers like Veras aren’t necessarily upgrades, said the evaluator. "Think playoff closer," he wrote in an e-mail.

The guy he thinks is the perfect fit for the Tigers is Jonathan Papelbon, the Phillies’ closer, who has pitched effectively in the midst of a lot of frustration for Philadelphia. In 22 outings, he’s got 11 saves, and only three walks and 20 strikeouts in 22 2/3 innings, with a 1.59 ERA. There are no questions about whether he could handle October, given his 18 innings and 1.00 ERA in the postseason.

A lot of teams would be scared away by Papelbon’s forthcoming salary: He is making $13 million this year, and is set to make $13 million in each of the next two seasons, with a vesting option for another $13 million in 2016.

But these are the Tigers, who have demonstrated a willingness to do everything possible to win a title.

Does that include taking on an onerous contract for a power closer with October experience?

We’ll see. The Phillies would have to decide to do some re-tooling before that ever happened; maybe they would see value in moving Papelbon at a time when it’s a seller’s market among relievers.

For the readers: What would you do if you were in the Tigers’ position?

(By the way: If you’re wondering about Brian Wilson, a free agent, there still is no indication he’s even close to pitching in the big leagues as he recovers from major surgery, and like so many of the other external bullpen options, he would come with enormous risk, because of that uncertainty. He may also prefer to pitch elsewhere.)

• The Tigers’ best and most immediate option might be to move Joaquin Benoit into the closer’s role, writes Lynn Henning.

• The peaks and valleys of Pedro Strop demonstrate just how volatile the career arc of a reliever can be: He was outstanding last year, and now he’s a mess, and because he’s out of options, the Orioles are trying to be patient, Kevin Cowherd writes.

• From ESPN Stats & Info: This was the fifth time in Verlander’s career that he has pitched at least seven scoreless innings and received a no-decision. No other Tigers pitcher in the live ball era (since 1920) has more than two such career games.

Why Verlander should have won:
A) He got batters to swing at 37.9 percent of his fastballs thrown out of the zone, his highest fastball chase rate this season.
B) His fastball had its most movement of the season (minus-7.4 inches of horizontal break, 11.8 inches of vertical break -- both season highs).
C) He allowed zero "well-hit" balls in play, the third time he has done that in a game over the past five seasons (also in 2009 and 2012).
D) He did not face a batter with a runner in scoring position the entire game, the first time he has done that this season. Royals hitters were 0-for-8 with five strikeouts with a man on first base against Verlander.

• Eric Hosmer got a face full of barbecue sauce and loved it, Sam Mellinger writes.

[rocket]

Smyly should be the closer. No need to trade for one.

I think he should be the closer until we can find one and then make Smyly a starter.

[LastEpic]

I think Papelbon is pretty exceptional, but I agree with other posters, he costs way too much. I think the Tigers need to go after these two guys if they can:

Glen Perkins: BAA: .170 // WHIP: .85 // ERA: 2.55 // Low walk / high strikeout rate
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...041&position=P


Jesse Crain: BAA: .196 // WHIP: .1.03 // ERA: .60 // Similiar to Perkins in strikeouts
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...817&position=P

They're cheap, they're consistent, they come from division rivals meaning they have intimate knowledge of Twins/White Sox batters. They are a bit more keen on strikeouts than a lot of other available relievers, and we all know the Tigers need strikeout pitchers.

However if the Tigers shoot for the moon, I really hope they go after a solid closer not named Papelbon.