I would take Grudden in a heartbeat, hes a mean SOB but he gets his guys to play hard as ever.
Stating Vinny Cerrato is Hawking for a job is more speculative than looking at the people involved, the time-line, and the results.
MrT is NOT a "football guy," he just isn't. He's been involved in football personnel depts, but solely for his expertise in contract negotiations, and cap structure. He is NOT making the final decisions on who gets drafted, that would be ridiculous.
MrT becomes "GM" in 2006, and Eric Mangini becomes Head Coach. Except for Ghoston (Ghoston did not play with passion, but had great measurables - football was a way to a means, and this is what has worried many NFL "football people" about Quinton Coples - I don't know the guy, but he isn't tearing up the league, and his limited playing time is based on what he's shown in practice and on the field), the Mangini Era built the team that REX took to the playoffs.
Since REX's arrival - there has been a steady erosion of talent - especially on offense. Why? Because REX knows defense, and really doesn't know, or care that much about offense - BUT it was REX that was so impressed with Sanchez at their private work-out, and this is corroborated by multiple sources.
This 2012 Team - this is REX's team - this is what he has built. Terry Bradway has input, MrT has input, even Woody has input - but REX has the final say.
Does anyone actually think the REX is going to let someone else have the final say on "his players," and their acquisition? This is REX, who is a self-proclaimed "Great Coach," with an ego so big that he blasted his way on to the scene, and someone thinks he's going to sit around and have someone else build "his team." I don't think so.
BTW - There are numerous examples of "NFL Insiders" that have come out suggesting there is no way MrT is responsible for the talent selection on our Jets - because he's not a "football guy," he's a numbers guy - and, in case you haven't noticed, our cap numbers aren't great (understatement), and the fact that the majority of our available money is going to a handful of average players isn't so great either.
I would love it if the mess that is now out Jets could be blamed on one guy - MrT, "The GM," but that just isn't so. You have to admit - this all makes so much more sense than thinking MrT is the one out their "buying the groceries."
As far as Kyle Wilson goes - he is not a very good CB. He is rated "below average" for most of this year with only week 6 ranked as just above average. he has 1 INT from opening day when Fitzpatrick was giving them away, AND - he only has 3 PD (pass defended) for the entire year. Many D-lineman have more than that, and this is near the league low for CBs. Most of his "thrown at - incomplete" are overthrown/underthrown passes. How many times have we seen him beaten deep, only to see the ball go sailing past the wide-open WR?
I would love it if he was a solid #2 CB in this league, then we could trade Cromartie, or even Revis - but the drop-off from those 2 guys, to Wilson is HUMONGOUS!
Last edited by jetsfansince'67; 11-30-2012 at 03:48 PM.
I agree that Tanny shouldn't get all of the blame. Rex has to have more say then getting only one pick per draft. I don't believe that any coach would just sit there and let the GM and scouts pick his team.
Tanny does deserve a lot of blame though because of how bad the cap situation is. The Jets have been overpaying for average players. People like Holmes (who doesn't perform like a #1 WR) and Harris (who is really only a 2 down LB) are drastically overpaid.
This thread became irrelevant as soon as I read "Vinny".
Do any of you have any idea of what a buffoon this guy really is? He was strictly a yes man for Danny Boy in Washington which led to the crapping-out of that franchise. Since he was terminated, you can finally see defintire progress there.
Rex does NOT have final say and this has not be substantiated by anyone with any legitimacy.
- Bart Scott and Jim Leonard came with Rex, and were productive and necessary in changing the atmosphere around the team in 2009. Just because Scott is a cancer now, doesn't mean he wasn't once an important piece.
- Pace and Gholston were both Mangini guys, and they were both sub-par in 2009 and 2010.
- Sanchez, Green, and Edwards were all brought in under Rex, and were all very important pieces in 2009 and 2010.
- Holmes was an added piece in 2010, and LT was brought in to replace TJ who had become expendable. Both were major reasons the team was so great in 2010.
Rex/Tanny have combined to decimate the team in the last two years by not adding enough depth or replacing legit talent that has left. That much is true. They also were very instrumental in not just knowing which of the Mangini guys to keep, but who to bring in to mix with them to make the Jets a legitimate contender.
Just like I have said about Tanny, you can't only look at the negative on what has happened under Rex. I think if one of them is going to be fired, it will be Tanny because:
A. Woody loves Rex
B. Rex is the 4th coach since Woody bought the team, and I think he is looking for stability
C. Talent on the roster ultimately falls on the GM because he has the final say. Therefore if he's been letting Rex make decisions, that's on Tanny. If he's been taking bad advice from his football people, and hasn't replaced them, that's on Tanny.
Tanny might survive this season, but if he does he needs to surround himself with better talent evaluators who can find talent that suits the Jets' needs. Perhaps Mangini falls into that category.
Calvin Pace wasn't a bum. From 07-10 he was one of the better all-around 3-4 OLB's in the game constantly having positive ratings in pass coverage, run stopping and pass-rushing. He has regressed heavy these past few years.
Yankees - Jets - Rockets
1985 - 1990 - University of Notre Dame - Recruiting Coordinator for Lou Holtz
1991 - 1999 - San Fran 49ers -Director of College Scouting (1994 Super Bowl Champs), 1995 promoted to Director of Player Personnel (overseeing all college scouting and draft activities as well as pro scouting of NFL players and opponents)
1999 - 1st stint with Redskins - Director of Player Personnel & Pro Scouting - fired by the Brilliant Marty Schottenheimer in 2001
- rehired by Daniel Snyder in 2002 - Vice President of Football Operations - soon elevated to GM/Executive Vice-President of Football Operations.
The great thing is - he admitted that Snyder's directive to him and his scouting dept was draft me a "Pro Bowl Player" with 1st or 2nd rounders - no matter what position - Cerrato laughed at himself saying he wish he could've changed Snyder's mind in direction, but Snyder did NOT pick any draftees.
IF THERE IS ANYONE THAT HAS BETTER CREDENTIALS THAN THAT & HAVE MADE A LIVING AS LONG AS CERRATO HAS IN PLAYER PERSONNEL - THAN I'M ALL EARS!
HOW - HOW in the world do you think the REX doesn't have his big paws all-over player selection. Why is everyone giving Mangini credit for drafting - while MrT was GM, and you can't see the REX has had at LEAST the same amount of input.
I totally believe that MrT - "trader Mike" has been in charge of looking at the waiver wires, thinking up trades - and I think, accept for this year - he has done a decent job of making some trades not associated with draft picks.
I would submit that MrT has done better through his career making trades for established players (marginally), than REX has done drafting them.
With the sources I have, and just the plain common sense of personalities involved, the time line - the massive input toward defense - how can you not give credence to this. What - you want to think that REX is not at fault at all for these players. You think MrT selected Kyle Wilson? REALLY?
MrT - who got, Who got Thomas Jones for a 5th round pick, is going to want to spend a 3rd, 4th, and 7th on Shonn Greene?, and not that REX saw a big "Bell Cow" RB - sort of like Jamal what's his name, and said - "get me THAT guy!." It IS a matter of public record that "REX FELL IN LOVE WITH MARK SANCHEZ" at their private workout. I'm not blaming him for that, although I do blame him for not giving a shite about developing Sanchez and the offense.
OK - it's all a matter of opinion - although having people, facts and history behind an opinion does matter a little.
Go ahead - take your shots, or not, but research this a little, and listen to your head, not your heart, and I think you'll see REX's fingerprints all over our last 4 years of drafting (and he did well with M. Wilkerson, and probably D. Davis, and hopefully Q. Coples - although you hear Devito and Po'uha talk/gush about Wilkerson, and then listen to them talk about Coples - chirp chirp.
As for fingerprints, this is not nececelery evidence as all GM's are going to get a coach what he needs. He needed three deep CB's, that's what he's going to get. Mangini wants Gholston? Okay. You want Cromartie as a FA? Great, here you go.
Again, you even heard him say that he didn't know beans about Stephen Hill. And you can connect dots to make a case but for me to believe that Vinny knows ANYTHING is too much for me. I know that guy very well and he's a deer-in-headlight kinda guy when you get past the big names. He simply doesn't do his homework. Sorry, this is sorta personal. Don't pay attention to me.
Michael Kay said, "REX was the one that fell in love with Sanchez and was responsible for him being drafted, and has had a heavy hand in selecting most of the 'must have' players that he has drafted."
I believe that we will keep hearing more and more of this, placing more and more of the responsibility on REX, as the "time of reckoning" for this weak roster become the focal point of this year's failure. I believe REX will survive as coach, BUT I think some proven team builder will be brought in to direct the acquisition of talent, AND I think the reality that MrT isn't the culpable "idiot" responsible for this mess - OTHER THAN THE CRAZY CONTRACTS (Holmes, Sanchez, Harris) - and will allow an easy transition to a new team title for him, but concentrate his efforts on contract negotiating, and cap guru - although he's going to have to do some serious fancy footwork to try and turn us into a cap friendly team, as we clearly are NOT built to "win now."
REX needs to turn all his efforts toward COACHING, and MOTIVATING, and allowing him to pick Tony Sparano for OC is just another indication of how much input he has in picking players and coaches. I think a HC should have a heavy input into selecting coaches, but REX and choosing anything concerning offense should be off limits. I also totally agree that a HC needs to communicate player needs to the "GM"/talent evaluators, but REX should not be selecting actual players.
This is Rex's team. Even in hard knocks it was revealed that Tanny went to Rex and asked him if he wanted Holmes because he had a chance of getting him.
If Tanny had final say the convo would have been I just got us Holmes.
same with draft Im sure they had Ingram Coples and Jones on the board identified as possible 1st round picks. It was then probably left to Rex to make his choice.
"The Butt of all jokes"
What does that tell you about your GM? It tells me that either...
A. He's too weak to stand up to his head coach, or
B. He's too stupid to know how wrong Rex is all the time.
Either way, that means Tanny is a terrible GM. Even more so than some people have suggested. If you have no eye for talent and/or allow the inmates to run the asylum, then you're incompetent and need to be replaced.