Quote Originally Posted by jrice9 View Post
Firstly, you have to leave aside lesser living conditions/income imo. Thats a problem but not what I'm talking about. Minority groups in the US have lesser incomes than whites but its not really a matter of government discrimination. Arab citizens of Israel have equal civil and democratic rights and equal rights under the law and the Israeli Supreme Court. This is not true of virtually any other state in the region with regards to minority groups (let alone their own citizenry.). Part of the economic difference has to do with the fact that Arabs don't generally serve in the Israeli Defense Forces (there exempt as are all non-Jews and don't serve even close to on mass) which has a significant impact on hiring practices and economic activities (since its a compulsary service much networking is made and the disciplne from the army is considered a valuable asset for many jobs in Israel much like it is in the West). Arabs while allowed to serve don't and it hurts them economically. I also won't deny that like minority groups throughout the world, there are certain factors that lower opportunity but this is not unique to Israel and is comparable to the US and other Western democracies.



In regards to the other issues, I'll address them in order.

Educational Resources-This is a problem in Israel imo because the fact that Jews and Arabs are in largely (except for a small number of exceptions) separate schools in separate school systems. The reason for this however is not like Black/White schools in the US but for religious reasons. There are many Jews learning in ultra-orthodox schools, and regular orthodox schools and then there are also Arab schools with some teaching some Islam. I would be in favour of more integration but alot of the seperation is self imposed by both parties for religious and cultural reasons and I have to respect the rights of individuals to somewhat make their own chocies and the country to have its own educational system (its not a completely secular state). There have reports about disparity between the Arab and Jewish schools in terms of resource but this launched a major controversy within Israel itself and a Commission designed to fix it. That isn't really the action of a racist state, this sounds like a state that has its problems but trying to fix it. Compared to its neighbours this is much more equal and democratic and is comparable with the problems inner cities schools face in the US, Canada and elsehwere in terms of inequitable resources.

Laws Targeting Them-I dont know what your talking about for the most part. Arab citizens are equal under the law and discrimination practices by individuals and the government have commonly been knocked down by the Israeli Supreme Court. There have been attempts by far right parties to do certain discriminatory practices but they aren't the mainstream (and really compare to some of the extremists within European/American politics).

Immigration policy-The immigration policy is certainly different. I don't disagree but Israel is not a secular state with equal policies. Its a Jewish state, abeit one that respects the rights of its minority citizens. The country is not set up to have immigration of non-Jews otherwise it would compromise its position as a Jewish state and the homeland of the Jews. The right of return is not universal, I agree but I don't really see the problem with Israel discriminating with its immigration policy considering its not supposed to be a neutral multicultural state.

Also again Israel has more people who are not Jewish becomes citizens and accepts more refugees per capita (many including Non-Jews who become citizens) than any other country in the region and deals with refugees much more humanely than the other countries in the Middle East. I


All of these factors illustrate that Israel has fairly good equality "(if not perfect and improvement can always happen) for its minority citizens especialyl considering the hostile relationships that neighbours have with it and the close relationship that has existed between some Israeli Arabs and Israel's enemies (many suicide bombers for instance were Israeli Arabs). Despite this potential hostility Israel should treat its Arab citizens like anyone else and I think it can say with some pride that it does. Also, again its worth comparing Israel's human rights against its neighbours and enemies (including the Palestinians) and also compare its human rights record considering the security threats it has. One should be consistent and fair when judging Israel's record.
It IS a matter of govt discrimination in the us, I live in Chicago and you gotta be batshit blind not to see that.

This link has more links within showing the discriminatory laws
http://imeu.net/news/article0021536.shtml

You say Israel isn't a racist state, then at the same time casually state that of course they have diff immigration policies because it's a Jewish home state. You can't have it both ways, either they have race based policies or they don't. I find it hard to believe that you truly feel Arabs in Israel aren't second class citizens, they're very open about it, it's not some kinda secret. It seems as tho it just trying to convince urself of something which u know isn't true.

Saudi also has American and European citizens, who actually live in better conditions and have better facilities than many Saudi nationals. Does this mean they are not a racist state? Do you think they are? Because I do.

No matter how u want to slice it, Arabs receive less resources for their education system, so I'm not really sure where ur trying to go with all that, as none of that changes the fact.

And yes, every country in the world has economic disparity. And when that that disparity can be clearly broken down by race, there is always a racist agenda behind it be it the after effects of imperialism or slavery or whatever.