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  1. #1
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    Anderson Varejao

    I figured that Andy deserved his own thread since he is constantly being talked about in trade rumors.

    I understand that you want to trade a player when their value is high...I get that. I also understand that this team is not a contender right now.

    What I think that a lot of Cavalier fans don't quite get is the impact that this hard working, blue collar guy has on this team. Varejao plays the game the right way...all out from start to finish. I understand that this leads to injuries, which are frustrating. What I don't get is that we want to trade him now that his offensive game is improving. He is averaging nearly 16 points, 14 boards, and over 3 assists a game.

    I understand that he is 30 years old and that doesn't bode well for the future...but there are plenty of players in the NBA that have 4-6 more productive years after the age of 30. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that he is reaching his prime at this age.

    I just think that it would be foolish to trade him unless we get an absolute haul in return for him. He IS what a basketball player should be...100% effort 100% of the time. Let's say that Waiters turns into a 16-20 point per game type of player and Irving continues to develop into the 25+ point 7+ assist player that he is on the way to becoming. We would have a pretty solid top 3 of Irving, Waiters, and Varejao.

    Offseason, go after the best SF (or scoring PF) you can get (whether it be via free agency, trade, or the draft) and build the bench with role players that are upgrades over this group of bums (a better back-up PG, another player that is capable of getting 8-12 pts on any given night, and another big). This team is only an impact player and a few role players away from being a very good basketball team. Once they become a very good basketball team...it will be much easier to get that final piece of the puzzle to come to The Q to push us over the edge toward title contenders.

    Again...unless they are able to absolutely get a no brainer type of deal for Andy, there is NO reason to trade him...he is, arguably, more valuable to this team than he would be to any other team...he is leading by example.

  2. #2
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    I agree, Andy has been a complete stud so far this season. Other than Kyrie he is the only consistent player we have. The guy works hard, practices hard, and plays hard. Not to mention the fact that the offense is pretty much ran through him, and he owns the glass on both sides of the floor.

  3. #3
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    I am definitely down to trade Varejao. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy. He's so valuable to our team and without him we'd likely be one of the worst teams in the league. However, by the time we're ready to compete he won't be anywhere near the player he currently is now. If we can get some picks and young talent back then I'd be thrilled.

    Now I don't want to trade him just to trade him. I'd only do it if the package is right. But bringing in more picks and young players while also improving our own draft stock is the best move for the future. We would surely go on an awful run without Andy and give ourselves a much better chance at a top 3 pick.

  4. #4
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    Double post.

  5. #5
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    We would definitely be drafting in the top 3 if we traded away Andy. Do we have any other teams picks next season?

  6. #6
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    Heres the problem.

    If I'm moving Andy, the only teams that are going to want him are teams that are currently contending and he would put them over the top. All I'm trading him for would be unprotected lottery picks and young talent. These are things contending teams usually do not have a vast supply of (and I dont want late first round picks, there has to be the possibility of a Clippers pick/Kyrie situation).

    Thus trading him means there is NO chance we get back equal value in return.

    FACTORY OF SADNESS
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auto4short View Post
    We would definitely be drafting in the top 3 if we traded away Andy. Do we have any other teams picks next season?
    2013 first round draft pick from Miami
    Miami's own 2013 1st round draft pick to Cleveland (top-10 protected in the 2013 Draft, top-10 protected in 2014, and unprotected in the 2015 Draft.) [Cleveland - Miami, 7/9/2010]

    2013 first round draft pick from Sacramento
    Sacramento's own 2013 first round draft pick to Cleveland (top-13 protected in 2013, top-12 protected in 2014, top-10 protected in 2015, top-10 protected in 2016 and top-10 protected in the 2017 Draft) If Cleveland has not received a first round pick from Sacramento by 2017, then Sacramento shall convey their own 2017 2nd round draft pick to Cleveland provided it is within the top-55 picks. If it is not, then Sacramento's obligation to Cleveland shall be extinguished. (Cleveland-Sacramento, 6/30/2011)

    2013 first round draft pick from L.A. Lakers
    Cleveland has the right to swap the least favorable of their own 2013 1st round pick, Miami's own 2013 1st round pick (top-10 protected) and Sacramento's own 2013 1st round pick (top-13 protected) with the L.A. Lakers own 2013 first round pick (top-14 protected). If the L.A. Lakers own 2013 first round pick is #1-#14, then the L.A. Lakers' obligation to Cleveland shall be extinguished. [Cleveland-L.A. Lakers, 3/15/2012]

    2013 second round draft pick from Orlando
    Orlando's own 2013 2nd round pick to Cleveland. [Cleveland - Orlando, 6/23/2011]

    2014 second round draft pick from Memphis
    Memphis' own 2014 2nd round pick to Cleveland. [Cleveland - Memphis, 7/25/2012]

    2014 second round draft pick from Orlando
    Orlando's own 2014 2nd round pick to Cleveland. [Cleveland - Orlando, 6/23/2011]

    2015 first round draft pick from Miami
    Miami's own 1st round draft pick to Cleveland in the "First Allowable Draft" (top 10 protected until the 2017 draft at which it will be unprotected in the 2017 draft). The First Allowable draft shall be the draft that occurs two years following the year in which Miami satisfies its first obligation to convey a future first round draft pick to the Cleveland Cavaliers. [Cleveland - Miami, 7/9/2010]
    http://basketball.******.com/nba/dra...rafts/detailed

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmxrider9 View Post
    Heres the problem.

    If I'm moving Andy, the only teams that are going to want him are teams that are currently contending and he would put them over the top. All I'm trading him for would be unprotected lottery picks and young talent. These are things contending teams usually do not have a vast supply of (and I dont want late first round picks, there has to be the possibility of a Clippers pick/Kyrie situation).

    Thus trading him means there is NO chance we get back equal value in return.
    I think the best fit for a deal is OKC. They have extra 1st round picks from their Harden trade, Jeremy Lamb and Perry Jones. All nice assets and they could certainly use Varejao on their team.

  9. #9
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    Not trading Andy would be our biggest mistake. We seem to have a knack for this, see Jaret Wright for Martinez trade, AS for Hickson rumors. Since we are building a team then any veteran should be expendible. I would be happy with a 1st round pick and young player with promise. I thought last years late first rounders were worthless picks until we traded them for Zeller. If we can get another "Zeller" pick with these late firsts and a solid starter with our own first we will be light years ahead of just having AV on the team.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melo15 View Post
    I think the best fit for a deal is OKC. They have extra 1st round picks from their Harden trade, Jeremy Lamb and Perry Jones. All nice assets and they could certainly use Varejao on their team.
    With OKC being over the luxury tax threshold...there would almost certainly have to be a 3rd team involved in the deal to make the numbers work.

    With the jury still WAY out on both Lamb and Jones III, there would have to be something else substantial coming our way in order to get me to part with Andy...not to mention that neither one of them equal half of Andy's salary (or combined for that matter).

  11. #11
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    I'm not saying them for certain, I haven't really looked into it too much yet, just that I think out of the contending teams they have the best assets for a deal.

    I love Andy as much as the next guy but his value is higher than it ever will be and we should capitalize on that. He can bring us back a nice return and that's an opportunity we should take.

  12. #12
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    I love AV and wouldn't trade him unless the Cavs were overwhelmed. Unfortunately, the offers they receive will most likely be just the opposite. I love that AV wants to be in Cleveland and kind of hope he stays here the remainder of his career. He's by far my favorite player.


    Smoke 'em if you've got 'em

  13. #13
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    The Curious Case of Anderson Varejao (Cavs the Blog)

    After dominating the Nets last night, Anderson Varejao is once again on the trading block. Well not exactly, but there has been and continues to be a sizable collection of Cavs fans that wish it were so. All arguments go something like this: “Varejao isn’t getting any younger, he’s reckless and injury prone and is going to be a shell of his former self in 1-2 years when Kyrie/Dion/TT and company will be getting SERIOUS buckets (and please God some stops), @CavsDan will be emptying his wallet, and AC/Fred and crew will be back to calling playoff games. The future UncleDrew Army has no room for a grizzly ol veteran like Varejao and therefore the Cavs should trade him now while he’s playing like a top 3 center in the NBA and get something back.” yes, endquote

    There are many that oppose this line of thinking, and some that follow the logic but just can’t bear to see a Cavs team without the Wild Thing and would rather he finish his career where he started it – maybe even with a large wig enshrined in the rafters. There’s a twitter poll up right now and the popular vote is almost as close as that nauseating election we somehow lived through. I guess that makes me a SuperPac. Time to move the needle. Let’s start with some “ fact-checking” since that’s all the rage. Or maybe a better phrase would be “exposing some myths”.

    Myth1: Anderson Varejao is old. This should really read “Anderson Varejao is quickly becoming too old to be an effective NBA basketball player.” I rate this claim as Mostly False. Yes, there are studies showing that around age 30 basketball players start to head off into the sunset. And Andy just celebrated his 30th bday. But there are many interesting bits of information about Anderson Varejao that suggest he will buck this trend. Let’s start with the basics. Age matters, but so does mileage. So here’s your first trivia question. Which of the following players has logged the least NBA minutes? Anderson Varejao, Rudy Gay, Rajon Rondo, or Kevin Durant? Well if I created the question, you should be able to figure out the answer. So just let that sink in. Here’s the proof:

    http://www.cavstheblog.com/wp-conten...ao_minutes.jpg

    (If cannot read: Varejao - 12971 minutes; Durant - 16577 min; Rondo - 18049 min; Gay - 16286 min).

    That was about as cut and dry objective as it gets. Easy stuff. So let’s wade into some murky waters. I’m no NBA scout – but even a dedicated fan can make basic observations about the game. What diminishes with age that would hurt an NBA player’s production? Quickness, leaping ability, stamina, and the body’s resiliency. A relatively recent obsession for “outside the box” training and nutrition have somewhat improved upon the resiliency problem. Stamina is managed with minutes, practice-waivers, and rest (Spurs have this perfected). So the main diminishing traits brought on by Father Time are loss of quickness and no more dunk contests. A lot of Cavs fans feel like they remember watching Shawn Kemp’s career die in front of them. It’s true in some ways, he was a shell of his Seattle self, but a 30-year old Kemp was still a warm body. Check out 31-year-old Kemp that the Trail Blazers inherited. http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../gamelog/2001/ But contrast that high-flying style, totally dependent on elite quickness and dominant athleticism, with Varejao’s game…

    It’s mostly highly-skilled below-the-rim finishes around the hoop, an arsenal of off-balance hooks and up and under moves, and the occasional wide-open 15-foot jumper. Almost all of his baskets are assisted or off offensive rebounds meaning he doesn’t need to blow by a defender to create space for a shot. As a big man, he doesn’t grind away on the block in the low-post, it’s all backdoor cuts and constant movement. On the defensive end he makes a living outworking the competition, and it helps that he has good defensive instincts, a 7-foot wingspan, and there is no one better in the league at defensive position for taking charges, contesting, or boxing out. It’s pretty obvious that his success is rooted in skill (particularly his touch), will, size, and a very high bball IQ. None of these are going anywhere. There’s another player from another era with the same description, and wouldn’t you know it, he’s the first guy on this list! That’s right, Dennis Rodman. Comparing The Worm and the Wild Thing is pretty fascinating. Here’s a nice little career-comparing chart.
    http://www.cavstheblog.com/?attachment_id=14055

    Rodman turned 30 in 91-92. That’s 3 whole years before he was the starting PF on the 2nd 3-peat Bulls. Food for thought. While we’re weighing the likelihood that Andy is moments away from slowing down and falling off the NBA’s age cliff, let’s take a look at a few Andy-specific trends. Here’s a chart showing his FT% as a function of age.
    http://www.cavstheblog.com/wp-conten...varejao_FT.jpg
    He’s gradually improved almost every year. This means a lot. He’s worked on his game to eliminate a liability. Not available in chart form is that he’s become a devastating pick and roll partner which is exactly what someone like Kyrie Irving needs. What I found most interesting, however, was that as his usage has increased, so has his efficiency. He spent many years living the backup role and it may have been easy to cast him as an “energy guy”. He’s spent the last 2 years playing starters minutes against starters and the results have been nothing short of all-star worthy recognition. Here’s a chart showing seasons sorted by usage and the accompanying player efficiency.
    http://www.cavstheblog.com/?attachment_id=14057
    There’s really nothing to suggest that he’s about to start trending downward. If anything, his role has increased, he has a devastating PnR partner feeding him the ball in good position, and he’s making a living off of putting some fancy english on below-the-rim finishes. As of yesterday, he was 5th in the entire NBA in estimated wins added – he’s not even pumping the brakes. Now’s a good time to remind everyone that mostly-offensive stats like PER really do not capture all of Varejao’s value at the defensive end.

    Myth2: Anderson Varejao is reckless and injury prone. I rate this as partially true, but the “Trade Andy” proponents act like he is some kind of injury outlier. Every team has injuries, and every player will go through various debilitating injuries throughout his career. In the case of Varejao, he does have a well-documented injury history. But the last one was a total fluke. Nothing about his style of play made someone go Tonya Harding bodyguard on his wrist during a routine rebound. Guys that are “injury prone” are guys with degenerative bodies. Think of Brandon Roy, Greg Oden, or even Z before Cleveland doctors fixed him – guys that have constant, nagging issues. (you might even put Boobie Gibson and all his high-ankle sprains into that group) Varejao’s injuries range from broken wrist to dislocated shoulder to broken cheekbone. Maybe his style has something to do with it (flying into the stands and diving on the floor) but in some of these cases clearly there is some bad luck involved. If he was dealing with a nagging knee or back injury every 6 months it’d be different story. Clearly, these injuries haven’t affected his play at all. When he’s out he’s out, when he’s in he’s getting better every day, playing more minutes and at a higher usage rate with the only side effect being a spike in PER as it were. This is not to say he won’t continue to suffer injuries, but what you really want to gauge is how they are affecting his play when he IS playing. And anyway, if he gets bed-ridden with poison ivy this year or next for a few weeks at the end of the season because of his “style” it’s just good tanking at that point, right? (Don’t think for one second I haven’t had to deal with that lazy excuse for why paying the Lakers to take Ramon Sessions was “good value”) [Don't respond to that in the comments - it's been covered and we all love future MVP Tyler Zeller, myself included]

    Myth3: He’s more valuable as a trade asset than a future asset. PANTS ON FIRE FALSE! Andy is never going to net anything close to equal value in a trade and it’s because of perception, his role on the Cavs, his contract, and his potential suitors. Let’s just establish a basic common sense principle. If you own something that is ridiculously UNDERRATED you don’t want to SELL that. Andy is ridiculously underrated. In addition, the void he fills on the Cavs is immense. Marcin Gortat is a lot more valuable on the Suns that he was on the Magic. Can you even imagine the Cavaliers right now not only without their best player but splitting 96 minutes between Zeller/TT/Samuels? I’d be orders of magnitude worse than watching the backup PG torch-passing from Ramon Sessions to Donald Sloan. Here’s another way of thinking about it: if the Cavs adding Chris Paul to their current roster it would add less value than the difference between trading and keeping Varejao. The Cavs have no one even close to being able to replicate Andy’s skills/role on the team. Also, there is no real match between teams that need him and teams that can give the Cavs an attractive package. The Cavs SHOULD want a high round draft pick (top 15) and a legitimate NBA starter AT LEAST. Not only would zero GMs offer that if they COULD, but there are no good teams with the pick and no bad teams that would give up the young starter. Then there’s the issue of his contract. It’s almost a joke when you look at how little Andy makes for an established NBA Center. Roy Hibbert just landed a max contract. Varejao makes less than HALF that. Finally, it seems his reputation is forever stuck in “irritating flopper that lived off LeBron” (which is a total farce and shame) and NBA Coaches/GMs are as subject to irrational narratives as fans. This would further inhibit anything remotely approaching fair value.
    To prove my point, consider two NBA players born just 4 days apart. Both have had at least 3 seasons where they missed more than 30 games. Their career player efficiency ratings differ by of 1 point. Their career Offensive and Defensive Ratings are: [115,102] and [115,101]. Their Win Share per 48min are .153 and .151. Their career usage ratings are 14.0 and 13.9. (Is this getting crazy?!) They’ve both played between 1600 and 1700 playoff minutes with Playoff PERs of 13.4 and 13.5. They’ve both played center with an elite PnR point guard and coincidentally Byron Scott as head coach. (now you got it) Both players have current contracts that extend until 2015. One player has a max deal and would never EVER EVER be traded just because his “value is high”, or because he has a history of injuries, or because he was born during the first term of the Reagan presidency. That player is Tyson Chandler – NBA Champion X-FACTOR and absolutely critical to the New York Knicks playoff aspirations. And the other guy is (surprise) Anderson Varejao – the most criminally under-appreciated player in the National Basketball Association and a guy many Cavs fans wish management would dangle for little more than a 1st round draft pick! Grab an extinguisher and put your pants out!
    Also, if we could get Peyton Hillis on the cover of Madden we can certainly get Varejao into the All-Star Game.


    Smoke 'em if you've got 'em

  14. #14
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    The biggest question that the FO faces when thinking of wether or not to trade Andy is always going to be, "Are we ready to contend in a year or two when Andy will be a key contributor or do we need to continue to gain assests for the run we will make in 3-4 years when Andy will more than likely be past his prime and past his contract"?

    I have stated multiple times that if he continues the trend he is on right now and stays healthy this year then you trade him at the deadline or at the very latest during the offseason next year when they will have more teams trying to make a move. The reason I say this is because I think its playing with fools gold where I do not believe this team is really going to start competing until 2014-2015. People might disagree with that but you look at this roster right now with the lack of depth, lack of defense (this takes multiple years), lack of experience in the core players building with and you are still multiple pieces away from contending. Not getting a 6-8 seed each year and being out of the playoffs in the first round but really contending. This team needs to be built correctly through the draft and key small time additions in FA as I don't see most big name FA's still coming here. You can all say they will because they want to play with KI, etc. etc., but we hear the same thing every year for the past 10 years in all Cleveland teams and there still are not big FA's that want to come here. You can say they have all this cap space but I believe they are keeping that cap space until the time they can extend their building blocks on the team. They are going to build the core of this team through the draft and not FA's.

    I think if you could find a team that is around the 6-8 range this year at the deadline or a team that believes they can contend in the next 2 years that are looking for a guy like Andy then you try obtaining a young player with a high upside and multiple draft picks. Someone like Utah, Phoenix, Milwaulkee, Atlanta, etc.

    I'm not saying just trade Andy just to trade Andy. They will need to get a certain return for him but if they do get the return they are looking then there is no reason to keep him. I love the guys play since he started as just Sideshow Bob and his development but come time when this team is going to really compete I think he is going to be past his prime and just another bench player.

    Btw with all the bigs that will probably be in the draft next year (Noel, Zeller, Steven Adams, Isaiah Austin (Keep an eye on this Baylor product, Rudy Gobert, Alex Lin, and Withey) they should be able to find someone with one of the three (if they obtain a 1st rounder for Andy to go with theirs and Miama/LAL pick, have not faith in the Kings) 1st round draft picks that they would have to go with a SF and possibly backup PG to continue to build the main core of the team.

    This Guy is Ready!!!

  15. #15
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    late in the off season there were rumors that the wolves would trade williams and ridnour for varejao. it seemed like some of ya'll were excited about the rumor. in hindsight are you guys happy the trade didn't happen or could the trade still possibly be on the table?

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