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  1. #16
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    Wow we actually went after a Pitcher that throws hard? wonder how long before we trade him because he doesnt fit the "pitch to contact" philosophy.

    Hopefully the guy pans out for us. Span was a good player but our depth and outfield made him expendable. still think we could have gotten a little more but i guess i wont complain.

    props to VCU for the sig!

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojo30 View Post
    Wow we actually went after a Pitcher that throws hard? wonder how long before we trade him because he doesnt fit the "pitch to contact" philosophy.

    Hopefully the guy pans out for us. Span was a good player but our depth and outfield made him expendable. still think we could have gotten a little more but i guess i wont complain.
    I know that has long been our deriding song about the front office but I'm fairly confident that approach is in the process of being overhauled based not only on this move, but on a couple other factors.

    1) The draft last year was used to acquire mostly hard throwers or guys with average velocity but had a strong strikeout track record.

    2) This team hasn't had a decent infield defense in several years and they have done little to improve it. Having pitch-to-contact arms blows up in your face if your infielders can't make plays. The guys the Twins have lurking in the minors, Sano, Rosario, Harrison are offensive prospects with defensive question marks. Ryan and the front office know that IF they are going to make it work with these guys in the infield, they are going to need pitchers who can get 25% + of thier outs without the batter putting the ball in play.

  3. #18
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    Meyer has touched 99 and can work at 92-97 even as a starter, with good life on the pitch due to his low slot, although his ground ball rates in pro ball have been just okay. His slider is filthy, a bona fide out pitch whether he starts or closes in the majors, while his changeup has improved to the point where it's probably a future-average pitch. (He hasn't shown any kind of platoon split so far in the minors anyway.) There's a good enough chance that he starts that I'd hate to give him up for three years of a league-average centerfielder unless my club was an immediate contender -- which the Nats are. For the Twins, this gives them the potential frontline starter they didn't see in the 2012 draft class, when they passed on Kevin Gausman and Mark Appel in favor of very high-upside prep center fielder Byron Buxton. Pair Meyer with the resurgent Kyle Gibson, who showed a plus mid-80s slider in the Arizona Fall League, and the Twins' future pitching situation looks a lot more promising.
    ESPN Keith Law.


    Let us not forget that he is 22 years old and a College pitcher so although he was at the A level last year he is likely to "fly" through the minors if up to the task. My guess is he will spend this year in the minors and develop his off speed stuff and by next year at the latest be in our rotation. At least that is my hope.
    Last edited by specialiststeve; 11-30-2012 at 05:03 PM.

  4. #19
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    He'll start in Ft. Myers most likely. Catman is probably more of an authority on that league, but it seems to be more pitcher friendly, likely in part because a lot of the stadiums are the MLB clubs spring training facilities and have larger, MLB-like dimensions. If that holds true, he may get off to a hot start and get a promotion to New Britain in short order. What we see him do in AA will probably be the best indicator of his probablility of success.

    There are going to be some damn good prospects running through Ft. Myers this year.
    Last edited by nicksaviking; 11-30-2012 at 12:32 PM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    I know that has long been our deriding song about the front office but I'm fairly confident that approach is in the process of being overhauled based not only on this move, but on a couple other factors.

    1) The draft last year was used to acquire mostly hard throwers or guys with average velocity but had a strong strikeout track record.

    2) This team hasn't had a decent infield defense in several years and they have done little to improve it. Having pitch-to-contact arms blows up in your face if your infielders can't make plays. The guys the Twins have lurking in the minors, Sano, Rosario, Harrison are offensive prospects with defensive question marks. Ryan and the front office know that IF they are going to make it work with these guys in the infield, they are going to need pitchers who can get 25% + of thier outs without the batter putting the ball in play.
    I never thought of it that way!!!!! Good call, I think you may have hit the nail on the head with this statement.. Or maybe I just hope.....

  6. #21
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    Last edited by MattyG; 02-22-2013 at 11:12 PM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattyG View Post
    Thanks for posting this, toomuch. Appreciate the work, buddy.

    An article/link on mlbtraderumors.com eludes to the likely possibility that Meyer immediately becomes MN's 6th best prospect in the organization (How they can know that the day of the trade, is another question....).

    If this guy's raw talent is everything as advertised, the Twins, thankfully, have another Gibson like prospect/arm between AA and AAA for the first time in a couple of years.

    Despite Meyer's obvious talent and the excitement surrounding him at this stage in his career (At least one Nats poster having said they "Overpaid" for Span, in terms of surrendering Meyer, on a different sports website), I'm not a fan of moves like this, personally.

    Don't get me wrong-I used to love it when TR would target single A talent in trades for veterans, but in the old days he would generally only target such prospects at the time of the July/Augest trade deadlines in return for his older veterans during those years when they weren't going anywhere in the first place, etc.

    In my opinion, trading the 28 yr old Span in a non-contract season while he's locked into a salary friendly deal, by today's standards, is a big mistake if/when your only return is a single A arm, despite how successful Meyer could become in the bigs someday....which will be two years from now at the earliest, regardless. You'd think they could've landed another A baller with Meyer, minimum, anyway, if this is the way they were going to handle the Span deal.

    My fear is that this was YET ANOTHER knee jerk reaction by the organization (Much like the Santana deal five years ago) in lieu of the (Ridiculous) Upton contract handed down yesterday.
    No problem MattyG
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattyG View Post
    Great point(s), Bray, and you put up some excellent thoughts, too, purple. You're making me think it all through a lot deeper now, anyway.

    Maybe the fair statement, especially in hindsight now a day later, is that few of us here or across the game would've actually believed once ever that Ryan could've landed a legit #1 arm like this across projections for Span (Its complexity, however, that the organization would've still deserved a decent return for Span as a dependable player only about to enter his prime, such while playing under a salary friendly deal for most clubs). Thus, given Meyer's current placement in the system (An A baller), the "Total value factor" would've seemed "Short."

    One thing that hit me only this morning, however, is that Meyer is technically an AA'er as we speak. This trade wasn't made in July/August, but during the off-season, whereby even in Wash's successful minor league system, Myer was certain to have been an AA'er this spring.Basic point is that this actually came down to MN trading Span for a vested and really legit 22yr old AA'er, by MLB standards-maybe even one of the game's top 15 arms between AA and AAA (Talent/ability).

    Add to that the fact, as you mentioned in another post, purple, that they are truly facing a non exaggerated 40 man crisis in lieu of the OF situation, etc, and you can't help but think maybe Mr. Ryan still knows full well what he's doing.
    Meyer only had 7 starts at high A so I'd expect him to return at the very least so the Ft. Myer's experts can best assess the new guy. Though as I mentioned in this thread (or another, can't remember) with the pitcher freindly aspect of that league, Meyer very well pitch lights out and get a rapid promotion.

    We also too should factor into the equation that the Twins are going to take some heat for taking a guy percieved to be so far away. Jobs are on the line as we speak, Meyer may get promotions earlier than other Twins prospects simply because of pressure to show the fan base that the Twins did in fact get a something in return for Span.

  9. #24
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    Last edited by MattyG; 02-22-2013 at 11:12 PM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by trevhipp7 View Post
    We have like $30M to spend now don't we? I think we should be trying to trade Morneau an a lil cash to Toronto for Arencibia, and then move Mauer to first... That would leave us with about $40M to spend on 3 free agent starting pitchers and a middle infielder.
    Any move that sent Morneau for a top of the rotation SP would be a great move. We have all kinds of depth at 1st and it's time to keep Parmalee with the big club full-time. The salary could be better spent on SP and a middle infielder.

  11. #26
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    Lets see how Meyer does in the spring. If he does well, I don't have any problem starting him out at New Britain, just to see how he can do. Its a pitchers' league (for the most part) and he can always go back to Ft Myers if he struggles.
    I would anticipate him being ready for the bigs in a couple of seasons. As has been said, it would be great if he could work with Cuellar to learn the change-up (he's the one that teaches everyone how to control it).

  12. #27
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    ....disappointed that we didn't get more for Denard. Yes, this kid may become a top of the rotation guy, but I think the fact he's not ML ready yet means we should have gotten another prospect of some sort in the deal...
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  13. #28
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    Looking at the bigger picture I think this is the move that will work best for the Twins in the long run. As discouraging as it sounds, we are not going to be very competitive for about another year or 2 when both Sano and Rosario are ready to hit the bigs. My Future of the Twins is as follows:

    C: Mauer
    1st: Parmalee
    2nd: Rosario
    SS: Michaels (hopefully he develops) -- trade Arcia for a SS prospect?
    3rd: Sano
    LF: Revere
    CF: Hicks
    RF: Buxton

    Rotation of: Berrios, Gibson, Meyer, 4 , 5.

    If my projections are even just marginally our future lineup is set, so Ryan is just basically playing a game of chess to fill out his rotation. I truly believe Berrios is going to be a stud but probably won't hit the majors for three to four years. Even if Meyer turns into a #3 guy in the rotation we will have a VERY good rotation if we can get some inning eating guys in the 4 and 5 spots.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mauer.400 View Post
    Looking at the bigger picture I think this is the move that will work best for the Twins in the long run. As discouraging as it sounds, we are not going to be very competitive for about another year or 2 when both Sano and Rosario are ready to hit the bigs. My Future of the Twins is as follows:

    C: Mauer
    1st: Parmalee
    2nd: Rosario
    SS: Michaels (hopefully he develops) -- trade Arcia for a SS prospect?
    3rd: Sano
    LF: Revere
    CF: Hicks
    RF: Buxton

    Rotation of: Berrios, Gibson, Meyer, 4 , 5.

    If my projections are even just marginally our future lineup is set, so Ryan is just basically playing a game of chess to fill out his rotation. I truly believe Berrios is going to be a stud but probably won't hit the majors for three to four years. Even if Meyer turns into a #3 guy in the rotation we will have a VERY good rotation if we can get some inning eating guys in the 4 and 5 spots.
    I was thinking about this earlier and thinking Ryan is looking to 2014 realistically to have his next 6-7 year run. I would of course want them to compete now but unless we go out and get a 1 and 2 in free agency we are again looking at a VERY disapointing year.

    My guess is that we will get a few "hopefulls and retreads" and see is we can hit lightning in a bottle and if not Morneau will be gone by the deadline for another up and comer to put in the rotation for 2014.
    Last edited by specialiststeve; 12-01-2012 at 10:21 PM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by specialiststeve View Post
    I was thinking about this earlier and thinking Ryan is looking to 2014 realistically to have his next 6-7 year run. I would of course want them to compete now but unless we go out and get a 1 and 2 in free agency we are again looking at a VERY disapointing year.

    My guess is that we will get a few "hopefulls and retreads" and see is we can hit lightning in a bottle and if not Morneau will be gone by the deadline for another up and comer to put in the rotation for 2014.
    Exactly. But to be honest at this point I would rather wait a few years until we can sustainably win with our farm system than trade away our prospects and overpay some free agents only to get bounced in the wild card round.

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