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View Poll Results: Who do you got?

Voters
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  • Baltimore

    14 4.50%
  • New York

    74 23.79%
  • Toronto

    179 57.56%
  • Boston

    6 1.93%
  • Tampa bay

    38 12.22%
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Results 346 to 356 of 356
  1. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
    Not at all. I think I've already said in this thread that I thought JJ would have a great year. I've also said i thought Boston finishes either 4th or 5th in the division. Why you're so butthurt is beyond me.

    Hes an older guy, knuckleballer or not. He's a fly ball pitcher in a great hitters division. He's switching leagues and when he was in the AL he wasn't even the same pitcher.

    So just because I am a Sox fan I should have to think everyone on Toronto will have a great year? You basically contradict yourself here, because you're the one assuming that he will replicate his success no matter what. Sorry for not thinking Toronto will win the division by a landslide, I am clearly in the wrong for having a different opinion than you.
    So many things wrong with this I don't know where to start

    I'll try anyways

    Dickey is not a Fly ball pitcher even though he throws the knuckler
    he has a 55% GB rate, that is an extreme ground ball pitcher.

    As for his age, the guy throws his power knuckler in the high 70's...are we really worrying he's going to lose velocity throwing in the high 70's? I find it ironic a Boston fan having watched a decade of Tim Wakefield could think that age is a factor. You do know Wakefield was better pitching at age 41-42 then he was at 32-33?Wakefield had his second best season ever pitched at age 38..the same year Dickey's going into.

    As for switching in a hitter's league...the guy did better across the board in interleague play then he did playing in the NL.

    The second part of that sentence you were right when you said he wasn't even the same pitcher..that's because except for 1 start he wasn't even a knuckleballer the last time he was a starting pitcher in the AL. If Jose Bautista got traded to the NL, is he suddenly going to morph back into a bench player just because he was that (and pretty bad at it) the last time he was in the NL?

    Finally he's been replicating his success for 3 years now.

    R.A. Dickey, 20102012: 91 starts, 617 IP, 2.95 ERA, 468 Ks, 150 walks
    Zack Greinke, 20102012: 95 starts, 604 IP, 3.83 ERA, 582 Ks, 154 walks

    Personally I'd rather go with the guy making on average 11 mill a year over the next 4 (with the club option) than the guy making 25 mill a year over the next 7.

    I'm also pretty sure that Twitchy voted for the Rays in the poll so I think you're mistaken when you call him butthurt even though he's a Jays Fan. On a sidenote I think he's wrong and yes as it stands today on paper I think the Jays would win the division in a landslide

  2. #347
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    ^^just want to emphasize the "as it stands now today" and "on paper" part of my last sentence.

  3. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanersen View Post
    So many things wrong with this I don't know where to start

    I'll try anyways

    Dickey is not a Fly ball pitcher even though he throws the knuckler
    he has a 55% GB rate, that is an extreme ground ball pitcher.

    As for his age, the guy throws his power knuckler in the high 70's...are we really worrying he's going to lose velocity throwing in the high 70's? I find it ironic a Boston fan having watched a decade of Tim Wakefield could think that age is a factor. You do know Wakefield was better pitching at age 41-42 then he was at 32-33?Wakefield had his second best season ever pitched at age 38..the same year Dickey's going into.

    As for switching in a hitter's league...the guy did better across the board in interleague play then he did playing in the NL.

    The second part of that sentence you were right when you said he wasn't even the same pitcher..that's because except for 1 start he wasn't even a knuckleballer the last time he was a starting pitcher in the AL. If Jose Bautista got traded to the NL, is he suddenly going to morph back into a bench player just because he was that (and pretty bad at it) the last time he was in the NL?

    Finally he's been replicating his success for 3 years now.

    R.A. Dickey, 20102012: 91 starts, 617 IP, 2.95 ERA, 468 Ks, 150 walks
    Zack Greinke, 20102012: 95 starts, 604 IP, 3.83 ERA, 582 Ks, 154 walks

    Personally I'd rather go with the guy making on average 11 mill a year over the next 4 (with the club option) than the guy making 25 mill a year over the next 7.

    I'm also pretty sure that Twitchy voted for the Rays in the poll so I think you're mistaken when you call him butthurt even though he's a Jays Fan. On a sidenote I think he's wrong and yes as it stands today on paper I think the Jays would win the division in a landslide
    The groundball thing was an assumption, my bad there. It was based on the idea of the knuckleball.

    And you defend Twitchy when I just posted that the Rays were my favorite too so I don't see what point you make there. He decided to call me out for not thinking Dickey would be a great pitcher in the AL East like he was with the Mets. It's an opinion. I think he'll be worth his contract, which is a bargain, but I don't think he'll be a good #1 pitcher. If I'm wrong so be it.

    My point was that me being a Red Sox fan had nothing to do with me saying that at all. It was a baseless assumption that I was being biased. If I said something like "Clay Buchholz will have a better year than Dickey" that would be another thing.

  4. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
    Not at all. I think I've already said in this thread that I thought JJ would have a great year. I've also said i thought Boston finishes either 4th or 5th in the division. Why you're so butthurt is beyond me.

    Hes an older guy, knuckleballer or not. He's a fly ball pitcher in a great hitters division. He's switching leagues and when he was in the AL he wasn't even the same pitcher.
    The comment was made because it seemed like I saw your name along with 2-3 other Boston fans who regardless of the thread would somehow bring Toronto into it. If I was wrong, then I apologize. But it seems like you were one of them.

    As for Dickey, I believe I've pointed out somewhere that switching leagues shouldn't affect him, or any other pitcher. It's a fallacy that AL fans believe in, that somehow switching leagues will cause a pitcher to lose effectiveness.

    I'll even prove why it's wrong. If you look at BP quality of opponents OPS, you can find the average hitter faced by any pitcher in the game. For example, Ricky Romero faced a hitter with the average OPS of 750. You have suggested that an NL pitcher would face an easier lineup, and would have troubling switching over. However, the average hitter faced by RA Dickey last year had a...750 OPS.

    If you think I'm just picking and choosing Romero because it's convenient, I'll also point out that the average hitter faced by Morrow was a 741 OPS. The average hitter faced by Josh Johnson had a 752 OPS, and the average hitter faced by Mark Beuhrle had a 756 OPS. So believe it or not, it seems in this case, the National League pitchers joining the Jays rotation faced tougher competition than the holdovers in the AL, Morrow and Romero.

    Crazy as it sounds, Ricky Romero and R.A. Dickey faced the exact same competition. So switching leagues won't affect Dickey, or any other NL pitcher for that matter, as you suggest. If an NL pitcher does bad, it will be because of other factors, and not because they switched to the AL.

    As far as your comment of Dickey being a flyball pitcher, that's not really accurate. A 46% GB was the average last year among major league starters, which was exactly what Dickey had. So he was a neutral pitcher, and not a flyball pitcher. The previous two years he was at 50% and 55% respectively for GB rate. Those numbers are well above average to be considered a groundball pitcher. Obviously the GB rate has dropped in recent years, so I'd argue at this stage he's a neutral pitcher.

    Him being an older guy is really the biggest risk factor, but he's not a flyball pitcher and he's not facing tougher competition by moving to the AL East.

    So just because I am a Sox fan I should have to think everyone on Toronto will have a great year? You basically contradict yourself here, because you're the one assuming that he will replicate his success no matter what.
    Actually, I never suggested anything of the sort. I never said that anybody in Toronto would have a good or bad year. But thanks for putting words into my mouth.

    Sorry for not thinking Toronto will win the division by a landslide, I am clearly in the wrong for having a different opinion than you.
    The funny thing is, had you looked at who I voted for, you'd see I said the Rays would win the division, and not Toronto.

    It's comments like these, be it about the flyball nature of Dickey, or the fact you'd just assume that I voted for Toronto (when you can clearly see that I voted for Tampa) that led me to believe that you were part of the group that I mentioned in the opening paragraph. Next time, if you're going to put words into my mouth or suggest that I thought Toronto would win the division (when there is evidence to the contrary), I suggest you double check your facts before you argue something that simply isn't the case.
    Last edited by Twitchy; 01-02-2013 at 05:51 PM.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  5. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twitchy View Post
    The comment was made because it seemed like I saw your name along with 2-3 other Boston fans who regardless of the thread would somehow bring Toronto into it. If I was wrong, then I apologize. But it seems like you were one of them.

    As for Dickey, I believe I've pointed out somewhere that switching leagues shouldn't affect him, or any other pitcher. It's a fallacy that AL fans believe in, that somehow switching leagues will cause a pitcher to lose effectiveness.

    I'll even prove why it's wrong. If you look at BP quality of opponents OPS, you can find the average hitter faced by any pitcher in the game. For example, Ricky Romero faced a hitter with the average OPS of 750. You have suggested that an NL pitcher would face an easier lineup, and would have troubling switching over. However, the average hitter faced by RA Dickey last year had a...750 OPS.

    If you think I'm just picking and choosing Romero because it's convenient, I'll also point out that the average hitter faced by Morrow was a 741 OPS. The average hitter faced by Josh Johnson had a 752 OPS, and the average hitter faced by Mark Beuhrle had a 756 OPS. So believe it or not, it seems in this case, the National League pitchers joining the Jays rotation faced tougher competition than the holdovers in the AL, Morrow and Romero.

    Crazy as it sounds, Ricky Romero and R.A. Dickey faced the exact same competition. So switching leagues won't affect Dickey, or any other NL pitcher for that matter, as you suggest. If an NL pitcher does bad, it will be because of other factors, and not because they switched to the AL.

    As far as your comment of Dickey being a flyball pitcher, that's not really accurate. A 46% GB was the average last year among major league starters, which was exactly what Dickey had. So he was a neutral pitcher, and not a flyball pitcher. The previous two years he was at 50% and 55% respectively for GB rate. Those numbers are well above average to be considered a groundball pitcher. Obviously the GB rate has dropped in recent years, so I'd argue at this stage he's a neutral pitcher.

    Him being an older guy is really the biggest risk factor, but he's not a flyball pitcher and he's not facing tougher competition by moving to the AL East.



    Actually, I never suggested anything of the sort. I never said that anybody in Toronto would have a good or bad year. But thanks for putting words into my mouth.



    The funny thing is, had you looked at who I voted for, you'd see I said the Rays would win the division, and not Toronto.

    It's comments like these, be it about the flyball nature of Dickey, or the fact you'd just assume that I voted for Toronto (when you can clearly see that I voted for Tampa) that led me to believe that you were part of the group that I mentioned in the opening paragraph. Next time, if you're going to put words into my mouth or suggest that I thought Toronto would win the division (when there is evidence to the contrary), I suggest you double check your facts before you argue something that simply isn't the case.
    I got one thing wrong, his flyball rate. Quality of his opponents aside, I don't think he will have as much success in our smaller parks. His road splits aren't bad, but not many go from a big NL park to the AL East and have success, especially at his age. Kuroda is one from this year, so it's not like it's impossible, I'm just doubtful.

    You say I put words in your mouth when you did the same exact thing to me first. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but that came off as pretty arrogant. As for whatever Sox fans posted before me, I believe what you said, the Sox forum has been pretty much a nightmare lately.

  6. #351
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    Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. I don't think someone who averaged a 2.95 ERA over the past 3 years (600+ innings) will have a 4 ERA next year as you said in the Dickey thread, but we'll see.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  7. #352
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    I'd assume the odds are in your favor, but as you said we'll see. I think the Jays are a playoff team still. I like JJ, Morrow and Romero as it is. They have a great #1-4. MB IMO is just about done and in trouble this year, but as a #5 he should at least eat innings. If I were a Jays fan I'd just hope the injury bug stays away, even though Drabek + Hutch are good depth.

  8. #353
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    Drabek and Hutch won't be doing much seeing as they're coming off TJ.

    The reason I didn't pick the Jays is because of how much risk is in the rotation - but funny enough, I thought that risk came from Morrow (lack of innings), Johnson (potential injury) and Romero (will he bounce back or not). I have no idea what to expect of Beuhrle, but his ability to give 200 innings is quite valuable.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  9. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twitchy View Post
    Drabek and Hutch won't be doing much seeing as they're coming off TJ.

    The reason I didn't pick the Jays is because of how much risk is in the rotation - but funny enough, I thought that risk came from Morrow (lack of innings), Johnson (potential injury) and Romero (will he bounce back or not). I have no idea what to expect of Beuhrle, but his ability to give 200 innings is quite valuable.
    Yeah agreed, which is why i think a WC is more likely for them. I doubt that everything goes right, especially after last year lol. There's a lot of risk. If Romero doesnt rebound, then one of Drabek and Hutch can take his place when they come back midseason at least. They have depth.

  10. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
    Yeah agreed, which is why i think a WC is more likely for them. I doubt that everything goes right, especially after last year lol. There's a lot of risk. If Romero doesnt rebound, then one of Drabek and Hutch can take his place when they come back midseason at least. They have depth.
    I think J.A. Happ is a name you're forgetting, or perhaps dismissing altogether, I'm not sure. He's probably next in line if Romero stumbles, otherwise he'll work out of the bullpen I'm guessing. In his brief time with the Blue Jays last year as a starter (only 6 starts) following the trade with Houston, he was actually pretty good. I was somewhat content with him penciled into the final spot of their rotation before the R.A. Dickey acquisition happened. Hutchison is still really young with a lot of potential, and now there's absolutely no need to rush him back.
    Last edited by mtf; 01-02-2013 at 08:52 PM.

  11. #356
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    Still cannot believe that 3 or 4 day stretch where the Jays lost 3 starters I think it was. Unbelievable.

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