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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halladay View Post
    Is this a joke?


    Honestly, all I see in your posts in denial. Its a "lalalala I can't hear you lalalala" approach. How in the world are you ignoring how incredibly fortunate the team was last season. You won the lottery once, if you expect that to happen again, you're delusional.
    The most recent year you were a cellar dweller and we were a playoff team. Face the facts. To say that changes before the offseason has really started is laughable.

    lol....your a Jays fan, can I really expect any different? A division rival isn't about to talk up a fellow division rival. I'll end the discussion there.

  2. #77
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    Until this signing goes through i doubt the O's can get into the playoffs next year. If NY can avoid the effects of age, Jays can stay healthy, and Boston has a bounce back year while O's come back down to Earth the AL east will play out like it does every year

  3. #78
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    The Orioles are somewhere in between the 90+ wins they had last year and the 70 or so wins they had a few years back.

    There's just no way the top 5 guys in the bullpen have an ERA under 2.64. Let's put it in perspective - Rivera's got a career 2.21 ERA, so expecting everybody in the pen to pitch like that again is nuts. They're going to blow a handful of games, and no amount of heart or expert managing will change that. It's simply how baseball is - even the best teams lose at least 40% of the time.

    The pitching staff could see some upgrades in Tillman and Bundy, although I don't think you should pencil in Bundy for a huge season this early in his career.

    Offensively it's a good, but I wouldn't say elite team. Machado should be an improvement, but he'd be a better piece at SS then 3B. It makes a difference in the event Hardy has another poor season. I get he's a quality defender, and that's great, but I'm talking strictly with the bat. Reimold being back should help, but will he better than McClouth, who overachieved as well? They hit the jackpot on almost every player they had, and I don't know if they can bank on something like that happening again.

    They're a good team, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them cruise past 500+. But I don't expect them to be in the top 3 spots. Which isn't necessarily a slight on them, but just a statement of how talented the division is.

    Hamilton would help, but he's just such an enigma. I have no idea what's a fair contract for him.
    Last edited by Twitchy; 11-29-2012 at 08:46 PM.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by imbetterthanyou View Post
    Quick question to everyone jumping on the Jays bandwagon and so quick to bash the Os.....

    I thought Jose Reyes, Josh Johnson & Mark Buehrle were supposed to make the Marlins the favorite in a weaker league? So if they couldnt do that, along with Sanchez, Bell, Stanton, Bonifacio, Ramirez.....whyyyyy are they all the sudden primed to do it this year?
    Well, I would begin by saying that the Marlins were not the favorites in the NL East going into the 2012 season.

    Second, baseball isn't like football (quarterbacks) and basketball where 1 or 2 star players are the entire team. With the exception of Giancarlo Stanton, I'd say that the Blue Jays supporting cast in 2013 is far superior to that of the Marlins in 2012. The Blue Jays were likely going to finish around 80-84 wins last season had they not been decimated by injuries, and this trade (in conjunction with the Melky Cabrera signing) will only drive up that projected win total by a reasonable amount. It's just a projection/prediction, they still have to play the games obviously.

    People aren't "bashing" the O's. It's a realistic and plausible projection to say that they Orioles wont repeat as a 90+ win team. Look no further than Jeffy25's post, which no Orioles defender here has acknowledged, to simply see why people are not convinced that the O's are not some sustainable juggernaut.
    Last edited by mtf; 11-29-2012 at 08:44 PM.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtf View Post
    Well, I would begin by saying that the Marlins were not the favorites in the NL East going into the 2012 season.

    Second, baseball isn't like football (quarterbacks) and basketball where 1 or 2 star players are the entire team. With the exception of Giancarlo Stanton, I'd say that the Blue Jays supporting cast in 2013 is far superior to that of the Marlins in 2012. The Blue Jays were likely going to finish around 80-84 wins last season had they not been decimated by injuries, and this trade (in conjunction with the Melky Cabrera signing) will only drive up that projected win total by a reasonable amount.

    People aren't "bashing" the O's. It's a realistic and plausible projection to say that they Orioles wont repeat as a 90+ win team. Look no further than Jeffy25's post, which no Orioles defender here has acknowledged, to simply see why people are not convinced that the O's are not some sustainable juggernaut.
    Im a die-hard Os fan and I was skeptical all the way through until game 162. We have holes in our rotation and I know that record in 1 & 2 run games is highly unsustainable but ppl are also underestimating that even if the Os dont sign Hamilton they will make more additions to this team and young players like Jones, Wieters, Machado will continue to mature and get better, and Bundy will be up to help out the rotation...I think 93 wins is the ceiling again...I think it will be mid to high 80s. If Hamilton is signed...who the hell knows.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by imbetterthanyou View Post
    Im a die-hard Os fan and I was skeptical all the way through until game 162. We have holes in our rotation and I know that record in 1 & 2 run games is highly unsustainable but ppl are also underestimating that even if the Os dont sign Hamilton they will make more additions to this team and young players like Jones, Wieters, Machado will continue to mature and get better, and Bundy will be up to help out the rotation...I think 93 wins is the ceiling again...I think it will be mid to high 80s. If Hamilton is signed...who the hell knows.
    I actually do like the Orioles too, and I like seeing the Rays succeed as well.

    The Orioles do have a good offensive core with Weiters, Jones and Machado. The problem isn't with their offense, which obviously would be improved if they land Hamilton. It's a solid lineup.

    The issues are with their pitching. Their rotation is suspect and the bullpen just can't sustain the high performance they got from it in 2012, as Twitchy explained. If the Orioles made a couple of splashy pickups for the front of their rotation, I'd like their odds of winning 85+ games a lot more than by signing Josh Hamilton to augment a lineup which is already pretty decent.

  7. #82
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    i was / am happy for baltimore. great baseball fans who deserve a competitive team, but there is some ignorance about just how scary talented toronto is.

    don't bet on us not winning more games,,our studs are now healthy and we've replaced the scrubs on our team with time-tested all stars. the sleeping giant that is our market place (toronto alone is the 4th biggest city in canada or the u.s,,plus territorial rights and revenue streams over all of canada) has awoke and looks to stay up for a long while.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by masTOR_shake1 View Post
    i was / am happy for baltimore. great baseball fans who deserve a competitive team, but there is some ignorance about just how scary talented toronto is.

    don't bet on us not winning more games,,our studs are now healthy and we've replaced the scrubs on our team with time-tested all stars. the sleeping giant that is our market place (toronto alone is the 4th biggest city in canada or the u.s,,plus territorial rights and revenue streams over all of canada) has awoke and looks to stay up for a long while.
    Agreed when we won back to back in 92/93 we had highest payroll in league and 4 million plus fans a season. Dare I say we spend like drunken sailors again if were winning and the fans fill the building?

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by imbetterthanyou View Post
    Quick question to everyone jumping on the Jays bandwagon and so quick to bash the Os.....

    I thought Jose Reyes, Josh Johnson & Mark Buehrle were supposed to make the Marlins the favorite in a weaker league? So if they couldnt do that, along with Sanchez, Bell, Stanton, Bonifacio, Ramirez.....whyyyyy are they all the sudden primed to do it this year?
    2 different teams.

    The Marlins had problems scoring runs, the Jays had problems preventing runs.

    Jose Reyes aong with Melky makes an already borderline elite offensive team Elite in that category. I'm not saying they are better than the Yanks, but they are in the Yankees level now, or should be at least.

    Now, the Jays have 2 pitchers, 1 with Ace stuff, the other an innings eater to go along with 2 alreay very good #1 type pitchers in Romero and Morrow.


    If injuries hit like last year the Jays will be under .500 again, but I highly doubt the players will drop like flies like that again.

  10. #85
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    Romero is a number 1 type?

    After last year he is barely a big league pitcher

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Romero is a number 1 type?

    After last year he is barely a big league pitcher
    Yes, and last year the Os won 93 games. Like the Os, i'll take Romero's history prior to last year when judging on how well a pitcher will do.

    Also, I don't know if true but it's been reported that Romero was pitching injured throuout the season.

  12. #87
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    Hamilton to Baltimore is the one place that I don't want him to go to even if he does get a little over payed. It's the park where he's played his best at in his whole career and he'd play at Fenway 9 times a year which is in his top 5.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampirate View Post
    Yes, and last year the Os won 93 games. Like the Os, i'll take Romero's history prior to last year when judging on how well a pitcher will do.

    Also, I don't know if true but it's been reported that Romero was pitching injured throuout the season.
    Here are the last ten players to walk 100 guys with a 5 BB/9 and 20 HR's allowed in a season along with a K/BB below 1.25

    Victor Zambrano - 2003
    Darryl Kile - 1999
    Pat Rapp - 1998
    Rich Robertson - 1996
    Jason Bere - 1995
    Sam McDowell - 1971
    Steve Dunning - 1971
    Earl Wilson - 1962
    Sam Jones - 1955
    Herm Wehmeier - 1950



    In fact, it has only happened 15 times in baseball history


    None of these guys have ever been number one's other than maybe Darryl Kile, and did this without the humidor in Colorado and openly complained about pitching there.


    Romero is a lefty. He has the potential to be awesome, or to be what he was last year. It's going to be his age 28 season. Will he be more like 11 or 12? I'm not sure, but I wouldn't call him a number 1 right now.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampirate View Post
    Yes, and last year the Os won 93 games. Like the Os, i'll take Romero's history prior to last year when judging on how well a pitcher will do.

    Also, I don't know if true but it's been reported that Romero was pitching injured throuout the season.
    We had young guys and new players propell us to 93 games. Don't act like we've had this team for a couple years and they just broke out last year. Davis his 30+ bombs with an .827 OPS. Machado was a rookie and played downright amazing defense with ok hitting. We went from having the worst defense in the league essentially to one of the best when he came up along with McLouth coming in LF. On top of that, Reynolds moved to 1st and played GG caliber defense and even had an off year power wise. We added Hammel, Chen, and Gonzalez (our top 3 pitchers) last year as well. Tillman and Britton are on the rise too.

    It's the players that progressed/we added in the offseason that got us where we were. Jones and Wieters took another step for the most part too which is what needed to happen.

    Again, I could care less if people think we have a high 80's+ win season next year, I watched every game the Orioles played. Was there luck? Yes. You can't fault them for that. To say they are going to stay the same talent wise next year is also off. We are going to get key guys back as well as add players. It's not like guys won't progress either. A lot of young players in that rotation as well as Machado that were rookies or very little experience at the MLB level.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Here are the last ten players to walk 100 guys with a 5 BB/9 and 20 HR's allowed in a season along with a K/BB below 1.25

    Victor Zambrano - 2003
    Darryl Kile - 1999
    Pat Rapp - 1998
    Rich Robertson - 1996
    Jason Bere - 1995
    Sam McDowell - 1971
    Steve Dunning - 1971
    Earl Wilson - 1962
    Sam Jones - 1955
    Herm Wehmeier - 1950



    In fact, it has only happened 15 times in baseball history


    None of these guys have ever been number one's other than maybe Darryl Kile, and did this without the humidor in Colorado and openly complained about pitching there.


    Romero is a lefty. He has the potential to be awesome, or to be what he was last year. It's going to be his age 28 season. Will he be more like 11 or 12? I'm not sure, but I wouldn't call him a number 1 right now.
    Romero is a 2/3 if he bounces back. Though not based on past history of other players with horrible seasons like him, since Roy Halladay had the highest ERA ever in a single season and he turned out okay.

    But you look at his peripherals even in his monster year, he's clearly not an ace.

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