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  1. #1
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    Should the Jets get rid of David Harris?

    Brought it up in the other thread regarding McClain and the more I think about it, the more sense it makes to me. This guy is making a ton of money and simply put, he isn't producing. I'd argue that he has been one of the biggest disappointments this year. And quite frankly, its been an every other year thing with him. In 2009, he was fantastic with Rex at the helm. In 2010, I remember vividly being disappointed with him. Last year I loved him again and this year... I hate him. Can't stand him. Missed tackles, burnt in coverage and consistently a pain in my ***. When you look at him, you can't possibly tell me he is a "franchise player" worthy of the money he's making. You simply can't.

    Next season, Harris will command 13 million dollars, roughly 10.9 million in base salary. Unfortunately, cutting him would save only 4 million dollars and have a 9 million strapped against the cap regardless. So I'm sure the Jets would be reluctant to do that. Having said that, I think that the Jets could easily find a trading partner to dish him off, perhaps a team with a high amount of cap looking to find a 3-4 linebacker like him. We wouldn't get a very high pick or a great receiver (remember, there were once rumors the Broncos would trade Brandon Marshall straight up for Harris) but we could at least get something for him and perhaps by trading him, it would clear up even more cap? I don't know, perhaps a cap master like NYJfan69 can help me out with that.

    But my main issue is I also don't like how he fits a 4-3 defense. I really don't see how he can play middle linebacker in a 4-3. He's not athletic enough in my eyes and he's way too big. 6'2 250 pounds. Remember, JVilma, who excelled here as a MLB in the 4-3 defense but was traded away after struggling in a 3-4, was about 20 pounds lighter and far more talented. Demario Davis fits the mold of a MLB much better than Hitman. I look at Harris and I think the only way he can succeed in a 4-3 is through the outside linebacker position and even then, I think its a stretch. Does he really have the speed to get to the sideline? I just don't know.

    I really think this is something to think about. Its seems evident that we are changing to a new defensive system and I can't see him fitting, especially at the cost we are going to be paying him. And another reason I'd have no problem seeing him go is because I don't think he's much of a leader anyways. He seems way too quiet to be a leader on this team and its evident Bart has more of that role despite not even being a starter right now.

    Again, just putting an idea out here. I realize its extremely unlikely to happen because getting rid of your 4 starting linebackers from the beginning of the year is probably a first for any team historically, plus Harris isn't THAT bad. But I'd really consider it.
    Last edited by jetsforever; 11-29-2012 at 12:35 AM.

  2. #2
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    I agree BUT... I think we should move every thing that is not screwed down. We have a 53 man roster that doesn't even have 11 starters on it. When we have 10 draft picks and cut 7 in training camp truly means there is a strong underlining front office problem and do we really think Mr.T is competent enough to make a quality trade?

  3. #3
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    Okay, I get that he's not a top 5 LB like he once looked like he could become.

    However...
    1. He's leading the Jets in tackles.
    2. He's 21st in the league in tackles, which puts him at #20 among all linebackers.
    3. A top 20 in a league with 32 teams with an average of 3.5 LB's puts him in the upper echelon of linebackers in the NFL.


    He's not a pro bowler in the 3-4, but like so many of the Jets' young front 7, he's probably better suited to be in a 4-3. He's all over the field, and has a nose for the ball.

    Based on his salary and cap hit, I doubt he can be traded, and cutting him is stupid because it still costs more than it saves. It's not like you're going to get a pro bowl LB for the $4MM the Jets would save, so keep him and change the defensive scheme to better suit the younger players who are the future of this team.


    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Magoo View Post
    Okay, I get that he's not a top 5 LB like he once looked like he could become.

    However...
    1. He's leading the Jets in tackles.
    2. He's 21st in the league in tackles, which puts him at #20 among all linebackers.
    3. A top 20 in a league with 32 teams with an average of 3.5 LB's puts him in the upper echelon of linebackers in the NFL.


    He's not a pro bowler in the 3-4, but like so many of the Jets' young front 7, he's probably better suited to be in a 4-3. He's all over the field, and has a nose for the ball.

    Based on his salary and cap hit, I doubt he can be traded, and cutting him is stupid because it still costs more than it saves. It's not like you're going to get a pro bowl LB for the $4MM the Jets would save,. so keep him and change the defensive scheme to better suit the younger players who are the future of this team.
    I don't think tackles are the best way to judge a player. Lets remember that Eric Smith led our team in tackling last year...

    I think this article from last month NAILS it for me. Specifically this section:
    Consider a few statistics to begin with: Last year Harris made 69 tackles and he missed just six, leaving himself with an 92.0% success rate. So far this year hes racked up 46 tackles and missed eight, cutting that figure to a meagre 85.1%.


    Harris displays what is becoming his trademark arm-tackling.
    In terms of coverage, by this point during last season Harris had been targeted by opposition QBs on 18 different occasions. Ten of those passes resulted in completions, while three were dropped, meaning that the ball found its way into the hands of the receiver 72% of the time. This year that number has shot up to 85%.

    But perhaps the greatest concern of all is this: according to highly-respected statistical analysts Pro Football Focus, Harris has become the worst defensive player on the whole of the Jets roster with a miserable overall rating of -9.5. Even more soberingly, in broader terms they presently rank him as being the 42nd best inside linebacker in the NFL trailing behind the likes of Colin McCarthy, Kelvin Sheppard, and Mason Foster.
    Can read the whole thing here

    And as I said in the OP, I really don't think Harris is better suited in a 4-3. He was brought here from the getgo to play in a 3-4. I'm not sure he converts well in a 4-3. Maybe that's where I'm wrong but I just don't see it. And again, for that money, is it worth having some average linebacker?

  5. #5
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    I bet David Harris also leads our team and maybe the league in missed tackles. He has to be somewhere in the top 5.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsforever View Post
    I don't think tackles are the best way to judge a player. Lets remember that Eric Smith led our team in tackling last year...

    I think this article from last month NAILS it for me. Specifically this section:

    Can read the whole thing here

    And as I said in the OP, I really don't think Harris is better suited in a 4-3. He was brought here from the getgo to play in a 3-4. I'm not sure he converts well in a 4-3. Maybe that's where I'm wrong but I just don't see it. And again, for that money, is it worth having some average linebacker?
    That was written a month ago. In his last few games, he has almost doubled his tackles. How many has he missed in that time? Small sample sizes are the tools of lovers or haters to make a point. They don't often make a good way to judge a player because over the course of a full season, they tend to average out to what the player is.

    Also, let's look at the missed tackles...this stat is based on a defender getting a hand on a player, but not making a tackle. How many of Harris's missed tackles were the result of him reaching and grabbing at an opponent who should have been tackled by Scott or Pace, or someone else that blew the coverage, while Harris dashed over to try to help out?

    The author of that piece refers to Harris's arm tackling. Well Scott and Pace don't use their arms when they tackle. They just run as fast as they can at the opponent, and try to run through them. They over run tackles more than not because they are more interested in the hit than the tackle. Harris actually tries to wrap guys up and take them to the ground.

    I'll take Harris over some retread mid level LB that we can get for the $4MM that the Jets would save by getting rid of him. He's still got the talent, and I really do think he can not just succeed, but become great in a 4-3 defense.


    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyyfan4life View Post
    I bet David Harris also leads our team and maybe the league in missed tackles. He has to be somewhere in the top 5.
    I think you're confusing him with Bart Scott.


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    I would trade anyone for the right deql, but I he is too good to trade for just cap space.

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    MAGOO there is no way in hell Haris could ever play the 4-3 MLB he is one of the slowest LBs in the league. His cap hit is way to high for his production on the field.
    Originally Posted by erickench
    At least Lackey had a winning record for the Red Sox. His ERA was just a little high.

  10. #10
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    That being said we have to ride it out with Harris for now. Hes still one of the better run defenders in football. Hes just very one dimensional. Hes morbid against the pass and cant play the coast to coast LB if its ever needed in a different scheme. At this point he and bart are both 2 down LBs. We are in dire need of LBs on this defense. Harris has to stay though for now.
    Originally Posted by erickench
    At least Lackey had a winning record for the Red Sox. His ERA was just a little high.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Magoo View Post
    I think you're confusing him with Bart Scott.
    Bart Scott doesn't see the field enough to have as many missed tackle opportunities that Harris has. Harris or Landry definitely lead our team in MT's and I'm sure that Harris is near the top of the list in the whole league when it comes to missed-tackles. He's been putrid this year.
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  12. #12
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    Have things gotten this bad with the Jets that one of the "Core 4" is that bad now that we are discussing trading him away?
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  13. #13
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    I think we got bigger "fish to fry" than David Harris. he is not worth the salary cap hit and is not a liability like what we got a QB, Bart Scott, and the need for a playmaker at WR. We really need to let the "Core 4" play out their signing bonuses while we rebuild everywhere else. The sad thing is that this a really weak class. We probably should go offensive line in 2 out of the first 3 rounds with safe choices so we can rebuild to the line to what it was 3 years ago. We need 2 guards really bad. The other pick needs to be another outside linebacker with speed since that is a huge weakness right now. I think WR will be okay next year with Kerley, Hill, and Santonio (we can't cut him until after next season or the hit will be huge anyway so we might as well live with his sorry butt one more year). Hill should be better next year anyway. Bring someone in to beat out Sanchez which should not be too difficult until the draft gets strong again for the QB position. Barkley and Geno Smith are too much of a gamble for the Jets right now. After next season we get rid of all the losers on the roster without much of a hit (Sanchez and Santonio are the main ones)
    Last edited by Clarkib; 11-29-2012 at 10:47 AM.

  14. #14
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    David Harris is a very good LB but not worth his salary. I don't mind it either way. I say keep him while we try to plug other holes. But if they find a team willing to take on that salary for a middle rd pick or two I might take that too.

    He just makes way too much money as do most of our starters. This roster is way too top heavy.

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccugrad1 View Post
    Have things gotten this bad with the Jets that one of the "Core 4" is that bad now that we are discussing trading him away?
    To be honest, I've always had doubts with Harris:

    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...t=David+Harris

    I thought he was the worst of the four players mentioned in that thread. I wanted Cro gone because I trusted Kyle Wilson (huge mistake) but overall, I stand by it. He isn't that good.

    Quote Originally Posted by jetsforever View Post
    Harris isn't that good He really wasn't that great for us this year.

    He missed a lot of tackles, he is so slow that it makes it impossible to cover with him (Look who was in coverage on that last play of the game on Brown), his lack of speed makes it too hard to get to a running back unless the back is running right at him.

    That problems I had from that post still stand for me. And that's a problem when he is making elite money the way he is.

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