Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 27 of 27

Thread: Clay Buchholz

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    39,086
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
    Nah, I was just annoyed that PapelbonLester comes in here and calls everyone stupid when in reality he' the one thinking we have to compete this year while the team is in a rebuilding stage.
    Do you know "Monty Python" well by any chance? Reading that stuff is on a par with some of the more annoying situations they conjure up. "But I'm not dead yet..."


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Wethersfield/Storrs, CT
    Posts
    8,923
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Do you know "Monty Python" well by any chance? Reading that stuff is on a par with some of the more annoying situations they conjure up. "But I'm not dead yet..."
    Haha yeah of course, although it was a lot funnier when I was 12 (no coincidence there). "What is you favorite color?"

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,994
    vCash
    1500
    Ever since Buchholz admitted to being 'scared' or 'intimidated' by John Farrell during a midday interview on WEEI, I wondered about his make-up.

    But I also wonder about CB's decling fastball velocity. Perhaps the best repertoire of all the team's pitchers -- he was once rated higher than Lester by Esptein -- but he's been a disppointment for the most part.

    Trade him for all I care.

    If a player's year-to-year performances are unpredictable at age 28, you sell high IMO. I'm sick of WONDERING what this team will be each season because of inconsistent pitchers like Buchholz.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    18,941
    vCash
    1500
    Don't get all the Clay hate, he's a good #3 starter.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...&year=2012&t=p

    Take out his first month and his numbers look much better.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,994
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by AI4LIFE View Post
    Don't get all the Clay hate, he's a good #3 starter.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...&year=2012&t=p

    Take out his first month and his numbers look much better.
    Sure, he's a fine #3; but that just affirms what a colossal disappointment he's been to date.

    We had boneheads in the media once say they wouldn't deal Buchholz for Albet Pujols. He was once considered more 'untouchable' than Lester (if I remember correctly, we missed out on Roy Halladay because of the FO's unwillingness to deal the kid).

    I think the overall point of the thread is the following: people still think Buchholz is 'ace' material, so would you deal him if he has an above average or elite 2013?

    There's been much criticism leveled at how the BRS are constantly shape-shifting their plan and strategy each season. Some of that is a tug-of-war between baseball and business ops; but much of it is inconsistency. If you don't know what your pitching is, for example. think of the kinetic effect it has on building other aspects of the team. It'd be like Vince Wilfork being hot and cold every other seaon, then trying to build DL and LB core for the long-term.

    Whether it be Buccholz, Ellsbury or perhaps even Lester to some extent -- a core of players whose performances can't somewhat be predicted or BANKED ON is no 'core' at all.

    This has been one of the greatest problems with this team all along, IMO: overating their foundation.
    Last edited by elements1985; 11-29-2012 at 03:44 PM.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    18,941
    vCash
    1500
    So if a player is not an ace he's a disappointment? Buchholz is what he is, a good #3 starter which is why we signed him to an extension. The "if he has a good season deal him" stuff is getting old, he's not done, only deal him if the correct deal comes along but I just think people expect so much that they are blind to see when something is good, not great.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,994
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by AI4LIFE View Post
    So if a player is not an ace he's a disappointment? Buchholz is what he is, a good #3 starter which is why we signed him to an extension. The "if he has a good season deal him" stuff is getting old, he's not done, only deal him if the correct deal comes along but I just think people expect so much that they are blind to see when something is good, not great.
    Relative to his talent, Buchholz has been a major disappointment IMO. He was once considered #1 -- now fans are content with him nestled in at the #3 spot.

    Mind you, though, those aren't the expectations of the team: they're still hoping CB breaks that threshold and becomes a legitimate #2, perhaps even #1.

    I agree you don't deal him to deal him; but if he has an elite 2013 and competing GM's project that season as the norm through 2017 (unlikely, but possible given the deperation for pitching) you deal him when his value is at its highest IMO. Enough with this guessing every off-season -- at age 28/29, these shenanigans are getting old.


    Imagine if, say, Cherington dealt 4-5 top specs for Felix Hernandez this winter -- not happening, but just imagine for the sake of argument -- then Buchholz transformed into a durable, bona fide #1 for 3-5 seasons (at 25-30% of Felix's annual salary)? Think of what a waste of resources that'd be -- especially if they needed to acquire, say, a middle-order through a trade -- and the implications on the entire team strategy.

    Basically a signficant -- organization-altering -- move made, all because a player with All-Star talent was so difficult to project going forward.

    Or imagine if the team banks plans on Buchholz at #2 next season, and he regresses to a #4 -- think of the kinetic effect on F/A, trades, the bullpen, offensive strategy, defense.

    You can't keep building around inconsistent players, IMO (not just inconsistent players, but inconsistent players with elite talent). I'm not sure even Bill James predict this team's top of the rotation next seaon. Considering its importantance and impact on every other facet of the team, that's a major problem.
    Last edited by elements1985; 11-29-2012 at 04:46 PM.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    34,893
    vCash
    1500
    Clay is very overrated. What he did last year was pretty much a lesser version of John Lackey in 2010. He wouldn't be that hard to replace, and his pitching frame and durability are concerning long term. If the right trade came along I'd do it. Right now it's best to be patient and wait for the pitching market to pick up. Unless a great offer comes up I'd wait and revisit it during the trade deadline.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    39,086
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by AI4LIFE View Post
    So if a player is not an ace he's a disappointment? Buchholz is what he is, a good #3 starter which is why we signed him to an extension. The "if he has a good season deal him" stuff is getting old, he's not done, only deal him if the correct deal comes along but I just think people expect so much that they are blind to see when something is good, not great.
    It's not just his results that are at issue. It's his frequent DL trips, and string bean physique. This guy will not be pitching or pitching well by 2016. Therefore I find it wise to consider dealing him.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    450
    vCash
    1500
    I don't understand all of this trading away our team. I mean there is a new thread of trading away a different RS player every couple days it seems. We would end up like the Royals if BC listened to some of you guys. On another note, if Buchholz is healthy he is a great 2-3 guy in the rotation. Just give him time, he is young and give this coaching staff a chance.
    "You’re either two feet in now or you’re two feet out. Let us know now because we’re coming."
    -Pedey


    Follow me on Twitter: S_____C_____

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    39,086
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by LasahShow14 View Post
    I don't understand all of this trading away our team. I mean there is a new thread of trading away a different RS player every couple days it seems. We would end up like the Royals if BC listened to some of you guys. On another note, if Buchholz is healthy he is a great 2-3 guy in the rotation. Just give him time, he is young and give this coaching staff a chance.
    This team is already closer to KC or SD than it is to a bona fide WS team. Since almost every experienced and sober BRS fan agrees that 2013 and 2014 we will be also rans, why not?

    We signed Ortiz to satisfy fans, and soon probably Napoli and perhaps Swisher or Ross, and a couple of other guys. It's just window dressing while something better is built. I'd rather BC concentrate on the real work that needs to be done.

    Tear this team down where we can get the right sort of return, and build a new and better core than this 5 year run of failure.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,994
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Tear this team down where we can get the right sort of return, and build a new and better core than this 5 year run of failure
    Tonight Rob Bradford commented that next season hinges on Lester & Buchholz; so, in other words, if our core plays to their abilities and Cherington brings in the right ancillary pieces, we'll be in contention.

    But I just think this core -- whatever it is; do we even have one ... in the line-up or rotation? -- needs to be gutted and rebuilt like you suggest. They keep fielding the same team and expecting different results each season.

    They don't need Buchholz to pitch like an ace, they need to replace him with someone who has the consistency to actually be one IMO. We're not talking about 23-24 year-olds anymore.
    Last edited by elements1985; 11-29-2012 at 09:24 PM.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •