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View Poll Results: Who is the Offensive Rookie of the Year?

Voters
207. You may not vote on this poll
  • Andrew Luck

    69 33.33%
  • Robert Griffin III

    108 52.17%
  • Other (post!)

    30 14.49%
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  1. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    That was damn interesting. basically what I've been saying for a while.

    Nobody wants to hear it though.

    STATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Thank you, im glad someone actually took the time to read it.

    Excellent article.


    "In my eyes, life is likened to christian ideology... its molded into three parts best described by the divine comedy; inferno, purgatorio and paradiso. You can live it in self loathing and pity, obscurity and ambiguity, or with beauty and elegance. Does that make the ideology truth? no, it makes it an irrelevent metaphor." ;p

  2. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by ombada View Post
    Thank you, im glad someone actually took the time to read it.

    Excellent article.
    I saw it once before in your forum, I was reading a Luck ROY thread or something but I didn't have the time then. Glad you reminded me of it.

  3. #528
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    what that article brings up such complete circumstantial evidence that can in no way be quantified, while bringing of bogus records (using counting stats which are ********).

    Then brings how the colts only won 2 games and the Redskins get this..... won a grand total of 5 games, 3 more than the colts. Then Fails to mention that Curtis Painter makes Grossman look like Brett Favre. Those QBs switch roles the skins win 1 maybe 2 games

    Then lack of defense.... yea you know the skins defense sucks really bad so I want even listen to that argument. That article was a bogus blog write up that completely ignored anything that could favor the other 2 or hurt Luck.

    NSM whether you like it or not Stats reflect the play of the player, they are just numbers thrown out there. How do we know Rodgers, Brees, Manning (Peyton), Brady are extremely good.... oh because of stats.

    Luck is simply not doing that good this year, his stats show that (they aren't lying to us, becuase they can't), but he is a rookie, his stats will improve as he improves.

    Oh yea and he throws more..... yea thats why he has more yards, and you could say ints (but his int rate is higher than RG3s), but that doesn't explain why, less TDs than Wilson or only one more than RG3 passing.

    He has comp% of 12% less than RG3's even if you put in margin of error, that isn't even close.

    Oh and going STATS... won't do anything to diminish this here argument, from a logical standpoint.
    Jackie Bradley Junior.... that is all

  4. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by papipapsmanny View Post
    what that article brings up such complete circumstantial evidence that can in no way be quantified, while bringing of bogus records (using counting stats which are ********).

    Then brings how the colts only won 2 games and the Redskins get this..... won a grand total of 5 games, 3 more than the colts. Then Fails to mention that Curtis Painter makes Grossman look like Brett Favre. Those QBs switch roles the skins win 1 maybe 2 games

    Then lack of defense.... yea you know the skins defense sucks really bad so I want even listen to that argument. That article was a bogus blog write up that completely ignored anything that could favor the other 2 or hurt Luck.

    NSM whether you like it or not Stats reflect the play of the player, they are just numbers thrown out there. How do we know Rodgers, Brees, Manning (Peyton), Brady are extremely good.... oh because of stats.

    Luck is simply not doing that good this year, his stats show that (they aren't lying to us, becuase they can't), but he is a rookie, his stats will improve as he improves.

    Oh yea and he throws more..... yea thats why he has more yards, and you could say ints (but his int rate is higher than RG3s), but that doesn't explain why, less TDs than Wilson or only one more than RG3 passing.

    He has comp% of 12% less than RG3's even if you put in margin of error, that isn't even close.

    Oh and going STATS... won't do anything to diminish this here argument, from a logical standpoint.
    It's useless man. Luck was their ROY choice before the season even started. For someone with that much hype behind them coming in, they only need to see small hints of greatness to confirm their belief of him being a great player/prospect. Other players have to show more for people to believe their good play isn't an illusion.
    2013 Adopt-A-Lion: Nick Fairley

  5. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by papipapsmanny View Post
    what that article brings up such complete circumstantial evidence that can in no way be quantified, while bringing of bogus records (using counting stats which are ********).
    using stats is ********? Yet you use them all the time?
    then brings how the colts only won 2 games and the redskins get this..... Won a grand total of 5 games, 3 more than the colts. Then fails to mention that curtis painter makes grossman look like brett favre. Those qbs switch roles the skins win 1 maybe 2 games
    yeah that was a reach. I agree.
    then lack of defense.... Yea you know the skins defense sucks really bad so i want even listen to that argument. That article was a bogus blog write up that completely ignored anything that could favor the other 2 or hurt luck.
    that was a bit of a reach too. But the rushing stats and him throwing so much is interesting.
    nsm whether you like it or not stats reflect the play of the player
    they can. They don't always nor do they properly represent gaps in between players because of the endless amount of variables that come into play.
    luck is simply not doing that good this year, his stats show that (they aren't lying to us, becuase they can't), but he is a rookie, his stats will improve as he improves.
    he is actually doing just fine. Just not statistically. Nobody on this ****ing planet thought they could win 10+ games. Now he's doing it and it's just excuse after excuse
    oh yea and he throws more..... Yea thats why he has more yards, and you could say ints (but his int rate is higher than rg3s), but that doesn't explain why, less tds than wilson or only one more than rg3 passing.
    lots of things could explain this.

    Arians system is a down the field passing system. With no threat of a run game and a system like that, it makes redzone passing a *****. Int rate higher is because he throws downfield more than anyone and the defense knows it's coming because they can't run the football

    he has comp% of 12% less than rg3's even if you put in margin of error, that isn't even close.
    yeah well if you watch him play, he doesn't look like he's missing as many throws as he is. People would have you think he's damn near tim tebow accurate.
    oh and going stats... Won't do anything to diminish this here argument, from a logical standpoint.
    Stats

  6. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by FortDetroit View Post
    It's useless man. Luck was their ROY choice before the season even started. For someone with that much hype behind them coming in, they only need to see small hints of greatness to confirm their belief of him being a great player/prospect. Other players have to show more for people to believe their good play isn't an illusion.
    Yeah because I'm a media sheep and always buy into the hype and mainstream press.

    Give me a ****ing break.

  7. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    Yeah because I'm a media sheep and always buy into the hype and mainstream press.

    Give me a ****ing break.
    Well, you did buy into the ESPN/Tebow bullcrap.

    Drew Stanton.....2-1 as a starter on the LIONS with both wins coming over 10+ win teams. ALL OTHER DETROIT LIONS STARTERS IN THE TIMESPAN STANTON WAS ON THE TEAM HAD A RECORD OF 6-39 with ZERO wins over teams with winning records.

    Where's the call for him to get another chance? HE'S A WINNER. HE UPLIFTED THE TEAM.
    2013 Adopt-A-Lion: Nick Fairley

  8. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by FortDetroit View Post
    Well, you did buy into the ESPN/Tebow bullcrap.
    Um, I was a Tebow fan when he was in high school. Nothing about ESPN or the media convinced me to be a fan of Tim Tebow.

    And yeah Stanton bring them to the playoffs and win a playoff game against PIT? Didn't think so.


    Why are we talking about this in here?

  9. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    Um, I was a Tebow fan when he was in high school. Nothing about ESPN or the media convinced me to be a fan of Tim Tebow.

    And yeah Stanton bring them to the playoffs and win a playoff game against PIT? Didn't think so.


    Why are we talking about this in here?
    Rex Grossman took a team to a Superbowl. Maybe the Cowboys should trade Romo for him. Irrelevant points.
    2013 Adopt-A-Lion: Nick Fairley

  10. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by FortDetroit View Post
    Rex Grossman took a team to a Superbowl. Maybe the Cowboys should trade Romo for him. Irrelevant points.
    I have nothing else to say to you. We just go in circles and you just keep making snide points that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

  11. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexander_37 View Post
    Too bad his schedule was much easier huh?
    I do agree that wilson should get it. Interesting comments from warner on how RG III is doing more for his team than wilson
    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-networ...-RG3-or-Wilson

    They were talking on the radio about the salary cap hit here in DC and that Snyder's ready to unload and is willing to do anything at all cost to surround RG III with the best talent when the penalty is lifted after the 2013 season. Hope the skins can surround RG III with a decent oline and a good defense like russell. Then in 2014 you trade Kirk for what 2 picks maybe. Then if RG III aint healthy shanny drafts another cousins maybe. Would love for Snyder to go after sherman or earl thomas when their free agents in 2015.

  12. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by papipapsmanny View Post
    what that article brings up such complete circumstantial evidence that can in no way be quantified, while bringing of bogus records (using counting stats which are ********).

    Then brings how the colts only won 2 games and the Redskins get this..... won a grand total of 5 games, 3 more than the colts. Then Fails to mention that Curtis Painter makes Grossman look like Brett Favre. Those QBs switch roles the skins win 1 maybe 2 games

    Then lack of defense.... yea you know the skins defense sucks really bad so I want even listen to that argument. That article was a bogus blog write up that completely ignored anything that could favor the other 2 or hurt Luck.

    NSM whether you like it or not Stats reflect the play of the player, they are just numbers thrown out there. How do we know Rodgers, Brees, Manning (Peyton), Brady are extremely good.... oh because of stats.

    Luck is simply not doing that good this year, his stats show that (they aren't lying to us, becuase they can't), but he is a rookie, his stats will improve as he improves.

    Oh yea and he throws more..... yea thats why he has more yards, and you could say ints (but his int rate is higher than RG3s), but that doesn't explain why, less TDs than Wilson or only one more than RG3 passing.

    He has comp% of 12% less than RG3's even if you put in margin of error, that isn't even close.

    Oh and going STATS... won't do anything to diminish this here argument, from a logical standpoint.
    yes there is plenty to diminish it. the first and foremost problem with your view of things is that a players stats are not impacted by the play of their team. They simply are what they are. This is complete nonsense.

    Luck has been hit a league high 97 times. You dont think that factors into INT's and completion percentage? or the fact that he has the worst running game out of the 3 and is forced to pass more often, therefor defenses pull men out of the box to defend said passing game? He has over 900 yards passing more than RG3 and over 1200 yards passing more than Wilson. he has over 200 more attempts than both. He has over 80 completions more than wilson and over 70 more than RG3. None of that has anything to do with completion percentage? or how about the fact that he throws long passes 27.2 percent of the time, which is second in the NFL only to Cutler, compared to wilsons 23.0 % and RG3 18.1%. But that couldnt have anything to do with completion percentage, right?

    The fact that his defense isnt good enough to get him the ball on a more consistent basis and has the second worst takeaway count in the NFL has nothing to do with the amount of TD's he has? Its hard to score when your not on the field. Or maybe its the fact that his offensive line has let up the 4th most amount of sacks in the NFL at 40. Maybe that has something to do with drives being killed?

    the funny thing is you say stats reflect the player, but are ignoring mass amount of relative stats in the article only to bring up the most basic useless stats as proof of whatever point it is your trying to make. The stats are not lying, and neither are the 7 rookie and 1 all time records he has set in his first year. Or the fact that with an inferior team, proven by the stats you so adore, he has won more games than RG3 and has helped improve his team by 5 games more than Wilson (so far)

    Not to mention you know so little about the circumstances of the Colts season last year that YOU fail to bring up that we started 3 different QB's. If Grossman played for us we would still be in the same situation because half of our roster was decimated by injury, including Peyton Manning, Dwight Freeney, Gary Brackett, Dallas Clark, Joseph Addai, Melvin Bulitt, Half of our O-line, including Anthony Costanzo, Donald Brown...etc. Too many to list here.

    We cut most of those players and are playing more rookies than the skins or the hawks. We have one of the youngest teams in the league. We had no cap space this season. Go ahead, name any of our defensive starters outside of Freeney, Mathis and Davis without looking it up. Name anyone on our O-line. Luck is literally the reason we have been winning and it would take someone who hasnt watched more than the 3 nationally televised games to think that he is having a bad season. He has had an excellent season.

    I put that section in bold to explain to you that the author of the article is trying to show the win differential from last year to this year without any major free agent pick ups and one of the youngest teams in the NFL. How can you call what the author is pointing out as circumstantial when all of the the circumstances are explained with statistics? Luck is carrying a team with almost no experience into the playoffs and for you to sit here and try and discredit that with blatant nonfactual opinion and bias is ridiculous.


    "In my eyes, life is likened to christian ideology... its molded into three parts best described by the divine comedy; inferno, purgatorio and paradiso. You can live it in self loathing and pity, obscurity and ambiguity, or with beauty and elegance. Does that make the ideology truth? no, it makes it an irrelevent metaphor." ;p

  13. #538
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    Lucks defense isn't that bad and deserves a HELL of a lot more credit than they get...their overall ppg against numbers are skewed by a few bad games (41, 35, 59, 33) where they gave up a bunch of points.

    In their 10 wins they have only given up an average of 18.5 ppg (for a barometer of how good of play that is, that's equivalent to the 4th best scoring defense in the NFL this season), despite having to deal with a turnover prone offense that is top 10 in the NFL in most turnovers. So essentially, in the collective 10 wins the Colts have, Luck has had top 5 defensuve play helping him out. It's not just Luck putting the team on his back, he's gotten PLENTY of help from his defense in the wins...despite how the lovers try to spin it based on a few bad games.
    Last edited by FortDetroit; 12-26-2012 at 11:23 PM.
    2013 Adopt-A-Lion: Nick Fairley

  14. #539
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    It legitimately should be RG3.

  15. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shareeb_omac2 View Post
    It legitimately should be RG3.
    We shall see. You around the dc/md area? Should have caught on the radio about snyder ready to spend after the salary cap hit. Check this out from trent dilfer on RG III-
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Feja9zmoBdM
    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...ro-bowl-roster
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrK-3_YW-yE (RG III 8 touchdowns in 5 days)

    RG has gotta slide and go out of bounds. Or else he wont last. Anyway, I think russells got the edge now. I like both as a redskins fan. While it seems some seahawk fans are pretty condifent, I look at the skins and am glad we have three superbowls!
    Last edited by ajamesmd; 12-26-2012 at 11:47 PM.

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