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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrandedCub View Post
    The bolded is just silly. Do you realize how many HOF probably cheated? There are pitchers in the HOF who have publicly admitted to doctoring baseballs. People need to stop acting like Cooperstown is so clean and pristine.
    That's why they're really afraid of letting Moises Alou in.
    Last edited by captainatheism; 11-29-2012 at 02:05 AM.

  2. #47
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    No, No, NO.

    I love what Sammy did for Chitown ball in the 90's, but no. Because if he gets in, that opens the flood gates for Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Canseco, etc...no. Carlos Delgado deserves it more than them, hell I'd vote for Mark Grace over Sammy Sosa. The only guy I feel bad who's caught up in that mess is Bagwell. He didn't do anything wrong as far as we know.

    Even if it means one less Cub in the hall, no. Before you argue with this post why don't you think about guys like Aaron, Mantle, Williams, Mays, etc., and how they would feel after dedicating their life to a game and it's fans, being honored for all their hard work, and then having to share it with cheaters. Even Sandberg, or Dawson. My favorite ballplayer of all time growing up was Cal Ripken (I'm a diehard O's fan too), and I would never dishonor his legacy by supporting a roid guy getting in.

    This cannot happen, EVER. I just listened to Stark about "it was the era, the sign of the times" crap. Griffey Jr. never took that crap. Nor Ripken, Gwynn, or Boggs and others from that era that made it. Stark's a ****ing ****** and he's full of **** normally anyhow, but that really pissed me off. The more Cubs in the HOF the better, but NOT this one. I'll wait for Castro and Rizzo to get in, and hopefully Gracie on the Vet ticket.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by excillon View Post
    No, No, NO.

    I love what Sammy did for Chitown ball in the 90's, but no. Because if he gets in, that opens the flood gates for Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Canseco, etc...no. Carlos Delgado deserves it more than them, hell I'd vote for Mark Grace over Sammy Sosa. The only guy I feel bad who's caught up in that mess is Bagwell. He didn't do anything wrong as far as we know.

    Even if it means one less Cub in the hall, no. Before you argue with this post why don't you think about guys like Aaron, Mantle, Williams, Mays, etc., and how they would feel after dedicating their life to a game and it's fans, being honored for all their hard work, and then having to share it with cheaters. Even Sandberg, or Dawson. My favorite ballplayer of all time growing up was Cal Ripken (I'm a diehard O's fan too), and I would never dishonor his legacy by supporting a roid guy getting in.

    This cannot happen, EVER. I just listened to Stark about "it was the era, the sign of the times" crap. Griffey Jr. never took that crap. Nor Ripken, Gwynn, or Boggs and others from that era that made it. Stark's a ****ing ****** and he's full of **** normally anyhow, but that really pissed me off. The more Cubs in the HOF the better, but NOT this one. I'll wait for Castro and Rizzo to get in, and hopefully Gracie on the Vet ticket.
    So?

    Are those guys not some of the best to ever play the game? What is it their nominated for, again?

    The HALL OF FAME. Not the hall of who did or didn't cheat/take drugs. Steroids can barely be considered cheating during that era.

    And to your last point; prove it.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milnertime View Post
    So?

    Are those guys not some of the best to ever play the game? What is it their nominated for, again?

    The HALL OF FAME. Not the hall of who did or didn't cheat/take drugs. Steroids can barely be considered cheating during that era.

    And to your last point; prove it.
    The Hall of Fame is not just about players numbers. It is also about the integrity of the game. And if Sosa and the others took steroids to better their performance they should not get in. No, cheaters should not be in the hall of fame. I find it ridiculous how many look the other way when it comes to steroids. No, not everyone did it. And those who did and were proven to have done it should not be hall worthy.

  5. #50
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    Sosa was the king of Chicago during his time here. His frustration with losing finally took his toll when he upped and left the team. As stated, he was a 100% competitor out there for the Cubs. He loved the fans, the city, and the team.

    I was born in 1981, I barely remember 1989 which was the last relevant Cub team since Sosa took the lead. HE was the guy teams were afraid to pitch to, the Cubs rarely have had guys like that that scare the opposing pitchers and hit homeruns like they are going out of style.

    The guy was my FAVORITE part of going to Cubs games during some of those brutal years. He was fun to watch, and even more fun to listen to in interviews haha.

    I hate the fact he's barely part of the Cubs organization. I think they have a picture of him in the Wrigley hallways, and maybe a flag up on the roof. Thats not much for a guy who carried a team and made them watchable for many years.

    I don't have a Yes/No answer on the hall of fame though. If it took a guy like Ron Santo 98249829842 years to get in and he was in my opinion one of the top 5 greatest thirdbasemen of all time, I don't see Sosa getting even a LOOK for a very, very long time.
    Mike P. ~~

    Banks - The Boxer sleeps and waits for a championship...

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milnertime View Post
    So?

    Are those guys not some of the best to ever play the game? What is it their nominated for, again?

    The HALL OF FAME. Not the hall of who did or didn't cheat/take drugs. Steroids can barely be considered cheating during that era.

    And to your last point; prove it.
    If everyone who had been accused of cheating or had evidence against them that they had cheated didn't make it into the hall of fame, it'd be a very small hall. Mickey Mantle, for example, should be removed for using uppers.

  7. #52
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    As should Hank Aaron.

  8. #53
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    Exactly, I just think that people who get caught using banned substances should pay their debt in terms of fines and/or suspensions and then we move on. There are significant personal and career penalties for using drugs. To keep players out of the hall for steroids would be to say there are different standards for these cheaters than for other cheaters (like pitchers who apply banned substances to a baseball, for example).

  9. #54
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    the hof is not clean.... everyone of those players did something that was probably illegal or frowned upon to try and gain that edge on their opponent. Thats part of the competition in pro sports... heck any level...

    here's my thing... if you put in a guy from the steriod era which is fine... doesn't bother me... BUT i think you should have Pete Rose in there before all of the steroid guys.

  10. #55
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    Difference between Rose and the other guys: Rose isn't even allowed on the ballot.

  11. #56
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    Let me try to understand the mindset of those who think Sosa (or Bonds, Clemens, etc.) deserve to be in the hall of fame.

    Do you feel PEDs should be legalized in baseball? I'm not sure if I would oppose it or not. It would certainly level the playing field.

    How about anything goes? Whatever creative way you can improve your game is OK. Corking bats, aluminum bats, spit balls, etc.

    Slightly off topic but relevant. Do you feel a person who cheats on their college entrance exams more deserve to be admitted to a college than someone who didn't cheat having a slightly lower score?

    If your wife (or girl friend) only cheated on you occasionally, should she be considered for a 'Wife of the Year' award?
    Last edited by 4cubs; 11-29-2012 at 03:38 PM.
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcal10 View Post
    The Hall of Fame is not just about players numbers. It is also about the integrity of the game. And if Sosa and the others took steroids to better their performance they should not get in. No, cheaters should not be in the hall of fame. I find it ridiculous how many look the other way when it comes to steroids. No, not everyone did it. And those who did and were proven to have done it should not be hall worthy.
    Ty Cobb was the epitome of lack of integrity. He's in.

    I really don't care, after that.

  13. #58
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    I heard an actual HoF voter point out that many of those who put in the "character" clauses for enterance when the Hall opened, were the same people who fought to keep blacks out of the game. Not a whole heck of a lot of integrity there.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cubs View Post
    Let me try to understand the mindset of those who think Sosa (or Bonds, Clemens, etc.) deserve to be in the hall of fame.

    Do you feel PEDs should be legalized in baseball? I'm not sure if I would oppose it or not. It would certainly level the playing field.

    How about anything goes? Whatever creative way you can improve your game is OK. Corking bats, aluminum bats, spit balls, etc.

    Slightly off topic but relevant. Do you feel a person who cheats on their college entrance exams more deserve to be admitted to a college than someone who didn't cheat having a slightly lower score?

    If your wife (or girl friend) only cheated on you occasionally, should she be considered for a 'Wife of the Year' award?
    None of those analogies are anywhere close to the same thing. Almost everyone is married. Very much less than everyone can play baseball in the major leagues. Even less can play it at the level that Sosa played it at.

    And until someone shows me a positive test, there's no reason to hold steroids against Sosa, as he's never admitted it or been proven to take them.

    He corked his bat. Big deal. We all know he didn't use a corked bat his whole career. And some evidence shows that corking a bat doesn't actually add any benefit to batted balls.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cubs View Post
    Let me try to understand the mindset of those who think Sosa (or Bonds, Clemens, etc.) deserve to be in the hall of fame.

    Do you feel PEDs should be legalized in baseball? I'm not sure if I would oppose it or not. It would certainly level the playing field.

    How about anything goes? Whatever creative way you can improve your game is OK. Corking bats, aluminum bats, spit balls, etc.

    Slightly off topic but relevant. Do you feel a person who cheats on their college entrance exams more deserve to be admitted to a college than someone who didn't cheat having a slightly lower score?

    If your wife (or girl friend) only cheated on you occasionally, should she be considered for a 'Wife of the Year' award?
    Do you believe there are PED users already in the HOF ?

    Why did baseball not enforce the rules and penalize the cheaters ? Why didn't the writers that vote for the HOF write about the players while they were using ? Didn't baseball promote the HR as they enjoyed huge growth and attendence and TV ratings ? Shouldn't baseball have tested earlier and made harsher penalties if they wanted to clean baseball up ?

    It seems to me that baseball and writers want to punish the players now instead of during their playing days when everyone was profiting.

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