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\r\n You\'re confusing projection with actuated skills.
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\nValle projects to be a starter with adequate defense, good power, and an adequate hit tool. What he actually is right now is a rough defender with a poor plate approach.
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\nIt remains to be seen how close Valle can get to his ceiling, but that does seem to be a steep price for a guy like Lopez.
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\nI would guess it\'s Schwimer plus another reliever like Diekman or Stutes.\r\n
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Now writing for The Hardball Times
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\r\nFollow me on Twitter for article updates @baseballATeam
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Originally Posted by
The A Team\r\n

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You\'re confusing projection with actuated skills.
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\r\nValle projects to be a starter with adequate defense, good power, and an adequate hit tool. What he actually is right now is a rough defender with a poor plate approach.
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\r\nIt remains to be seen how close Valle can get to his ceiling, but that does seem to be a steep price for a guy like Lopez.
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\r\nI would guess it\'s Schwimer plus another reliever like Diekman or Stutes.
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Yeah I used poor phrasing there. As it currently stands, he doesn\'t look to be much more than a valuable backup. If we want to go on projection alone, we have a more highly regarded C prospect in Tommy Joseph and potential guys like Lino, Rupp, and I believe Ludy (not sure if I\'m getting that name correct). Valle seems to be the odd man out to me with Joseph at the same level, so I would be ok using him as a piece in a trade.\r\n
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Originally Posted by
Swashcuff\r\n

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There is thing called basketball go on google and search the images of it okay.... When you do just picture Carmelo doing anything possible with it...... After that picture someone who does every single one of those things better.... That\'s Kevin Durant.
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Originally Posted by
ElChinoLatino\r\n

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why don\'t you add charisma and friendship, I think those are two other top qualities an NBA player can have next to "loving others for who they are".
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All in one thread

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\r\n i like lopez...he pitched well on an awful team...between errors and poor overall play he did well there\r\n
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2011 PSD Phillies Forum HOF Inductee
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Harry, I grew up with the phillies and learned the game by your voice. You will always be missed but never forgotten. Though you are no longer with us, you\'ll never be "outta here" in our hearts!
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\r\n We do have a logjam of C prospects. Valle is generally considered to be ahead of Joseph at this point, although the skill sets are quite similar.
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\nCatcher is a hard position to fill and there is no guarantee that any of these guys pan out. It may be best to hang onto them. We should be open to trading from that depth, but not for a middle reliever.\r\n
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Now writing for The Hardball Times
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\r\nFollow me on Twitter for article updates @baseballATeam
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Originally Posted by
The A Team\r\n

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We do have a logjam of C prospects. Valle is generally considered to be ahead of Joseph at this point, although the skill sets are quite similar.
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\nCatcher is a hard position to fill and there is no guarantee that any of these guys pan out. It may be best to hang onto them. We should be open to trading from that depth, but not for a middle reliever.
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There\'s a difference between a middle reliever and one of the best setup men in the league who is one hell of a value at his contract.\r\n
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Originally Posted by
Illa215\r\n

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There\'s a difference between a middle reliever and one of the best setup men in the league who is one hell of a value at his contract.
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We\'re talking about Wilton Lopez still, right? A guy who is a useful reliever on a contract that might be as much as $2.5 mil below market.
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\nHe\'s a good reliever, but he\'s a guy you use as a setup man only if you have to. He\'s much better suited for a middle relief role.
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\nI expect Aumont and Bastardo to get first crack at the 8th inning, assuming someone else isn\'t added.\r\n
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Now writing for The Hardball Times
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\r\nFollow me on Twitter for article updates @baseballATeam
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Originally Posted by
The A Team\r\n

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We\'re talking about Wilton Lopez still, right? A guy who is a useful reliever on a contract that might be as much as $2.5 mil below market.
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\r\nHe\'s a good reliever, but he\'s a guy you use as a setup man only if you have to. He\'s much better suited for a middle relief role.
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\r\nI expect Aumont and Bastardo to get first crack at the 8th inning, assuming someone else isn\'t added.
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Why? He\'s performed well in a late inning relief role before.\r\n
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Props to Fly-Eagles-Fly for the Sig
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Originally Posted by
EaglesJackson10\r\n

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Why? He\'s performed well in a late inning relief role before.
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Given his skill set, he hasn\'t been in the league long enough to prove he is a reliable option in that role. Most of his value is tied up in not allowing walks.\r\n
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Now writing for The Hardball Times
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\r\nFollow me on Twitter for article updates @baseballATeam
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\r\n Ok absolutely dream scenario here. Don\'t know what has me in this mood but whatever.
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\nTrade brown, Worley, Biddle/may, Valle, and some one else for Choo/Cabrera and Masterson (preferably Choo)
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\nThen trade Lee, Ruf, Asche plus cash for Meyers and Moustakus and Frenchie
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\nI\'d have to look into the KC deal since we\'d probably have to add more buuuuuttt...
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\nC: Chooch
\n1b: Howard
\n2b: Utley
\nSS Rollins
\n3b Mouse
\nLF: Schierholtz/Frenchie/Mayberry
\nCf: Myers
\nRF Choo
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\nSp Halladay
\nSp hamels
\nSp Masterson
\nSp Kendrick
\nSp cloyd/FA pick up
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\nWould be nice. We\'d have gotten a lot better and younger and lowered salary immensely.\r\n
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Originally Posted by
koldjerky\r\n

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Ok absolutely dream scenario here. Don\'t know what has me in this mood but whatever.
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\r\nTrade brown, Worley, Biddle/may, Valle, and some one else for Choo/Cabrera and Masterson (preferably Choo)
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\r\nThen trade Lee, Ruf, Asche plus cash for Meyers and Moustakus and Frenchie
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\r\nI\'d have to look into the KC deal since we\'d probably have to add more buuuuuttt...
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\r\nC: Chooch
\r\n1b: Howard
\r\n2b: Utley
\r\nSS Rollins
\r\n3b Mouse
\r\nLF: Schierholtz/Frenchie/Mayberry
\r\nCf: Myers
\r\nRF Choo
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\r\nSp Halladay
\r\nSp hamels
\r\nSp Masterson
\r\nSp Kendrick
\r\nSp cloyd/FA pick up
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\r\nWould be nice. We\'d have gotten a lot better and younger and lowered salary immensely.
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I wouldn\'t do the Indians deal in that form. We would we giving up a significant amount for an above average outfielder and a middle of the rotation starter.
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\r\nKC would and absolutely should laugh at us if we offered them that deal. On top of that, we would have to eat the majority of Lee\'s contract to make it remotely plausible... which it isn\'t in any way.\r\n
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Originally Posted by
Swashcuff\r\n

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There is thing called basketball go on google and search the images of it okay.... When you do just picture Carmelo doing anything possible with it...... After that picture someone who does every single one of those things better.... That\'s Kevin Durant.
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Originally Posted by
ElChinoLatino\r\n

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why don\'t you add charisma and friendship, I think those are two other top qualities an NBA player can have next to "loving others for who they are".
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All in one thread

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pd[24493505] = '\r\n
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\r\n \r\n 11-28-2012, 03:05 PM\r\n \r\n \r\n
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Now writing for The Hardball Times
\r\n
\r\nFollow me on Twitter for article updates @baseballATeam
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pd[24494010] = '\r\n
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\r\n \r\n 11-28-2012, 03:42 PM\r\n \r\n \r\n
\r\n \r\n #13\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n
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\r\n A trade with Cleveland or KC would help needs. Obviously mine are low but working around those would be better than any FA signing\r\n
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pd[24494435] = '\r\n
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\r\n \r\n 11-28-2012, 04:13 PM\r\n \r\n \r\n
\r\n \r\n #14\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n
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\r\n No, I mean you are high.
\n
\nAlso, I don\'t see why the Phillies would want a left-handed platoon outfielder and an adequate SP (Choo/Masterson).\r\n
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\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
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Now writing for The Hardball Times
\r\n
\r\nFollow me on Twitter for article updates @baseballATeam
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pd[24496041] = '\r\n
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\r\n \r\n 11-28-2012, 05:55 PM\r\n \r\n \r\n
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\r\n sweeten the pot with Polanco\r\n
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pd[24499280] = '\r\n
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\r\n \r\n 11-28-2012, 09:05 PM\r\n \r\n \r\n
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\r\n Wilton is a very good pickup....for cheap. Of the radar and creative... really like the move... I didnt even think of him because i didnt think Houston could part with him...since they are now without a closer.\r\n
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pd[24504142] = '\r\n
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\r\n \r\n 11-29-2012, 06:56 AM\r\n \r\n \r\n
\r\n \r\n #17\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n
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\r\n Jordan Walden is supposedly available now. I\'d love to see the Phillies check in on that.\r\n
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Now writing for The Hardball Times
\r\n
\r\nFollow me on Twitter for article updates @baseballATeam
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pd[24505123] = '\r\n
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\r\n \r\n 11-29-2012, 10:50 AM\r\n \r\n \r\n
\r\n \r\n #18\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n
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\r\n Rumored to be Cloyd and Catching spec\r\n
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pd[24505157] = '\r\n
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\r\n \r\n 11-29-2012, 10:55 AM\r\n \r\n \r\n
\r\n \r\n #19\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n
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\r\n Ugh that.\r\n
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pd[24505659] = '\r\n
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\r\n \r\n #20\r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n\r\n\r\n
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\r\n Brookover reporting the Stros are now entertaining other offers.\r\n
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pd[24505852] = '\r\n
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\r\n \r\n 11-29-2012, 12:21 PM\r\n \r\n \r\n
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Originally Posted by
Michael6BT\r\n

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Brookover reporting the Stros are now entertaining other offers.
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Salisbury speculated that they found something during his physical. Apparently had an elbow issue last season. Took physical yesterday.\r\n
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pd[24505902] = '\r\n
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\r\n The same Wilton lopz that could be a fluke and had shoulder problems? no thanx\r\n
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\r\nAuthentic
Phillies,
Eagles ,
Sixers and
Man City fan

\r\n- I love
Ray Lewis.

\r\n
\r\n
"Do not scorn a weak cub, he may become a brutal tiger"
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pd[24506831] = '\r\n
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\r\n If its for Cloyd and Vaile/Joseph for a decent reliever...which have millions of in are system I\'ll be pissed as usual. Hopefully it doesnt go through.\r\n
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Proud employee of the Lehigh Valley IronPigs and Temple University student\r\n
Eagles: Jeremy Maclin
\r\nPhillies: Dylan Cozens 
\r\n76ers: Lavoy Allen
\r\nFlyers: Brayden Schenn
\r\nTemple Football: P.J. Walker/Zaire Williams (4-7)
\r\nTemple Basketball: Quenton DeCosey (17-8)
\r\n...the beginning of a Philly Dynasty
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pd[24507031] = '\r\n
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\r\n looks like deal is falling apart\r\n
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2011 PSD Phillies Forum HOF Inductee
\r\n
\r\n
Harry, I grew up with the phillies and learned the game by your voice. You will always be missed but never forgotten. Though you are no longer with us, you\'ll never be "outta here" in our hearts!
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pd[24507236] = '\r\n
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\r\n Joe Borowski
\n
\nDennys Reyes
\n
\nWilton Lopez\r\n
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Now writing for The Hardball Times
\r\n
\r\nFollow me on Twitter for article updates @baseballATeam
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\r\n ATeam I love your hatred for Lopez...so entertaining
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Proud employee of the Lehigh Valley IronPigs and Temple University student\r\n
Eagles: Jeremy Maclin
\r\nPhillies: Dylan Cozens 
\r\n76ers: Lavoy Allen
\r\nFlyers: Brayden Schenn
\r\nTemple Football: P.J. Walker/Zaire Williams (4-7)
\r\nTemple Basketball: Quenton DeCosey (17-8)
\r\n...the beginning of a Philly Dynasty
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Originally Posted by
Synyster89\r\n

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ATeam I love your hatred for Lopez...so entertaining

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I\'m not quite sure where it comes from.\r\n
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Originally Posted by
Synyster89\r\n

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ATeam I love your hatred for Lopez...so entertaining

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??
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\r\nHe\'s a good reliever, I like him. He\'s just not an ideal first division set up man. Aumont and Bastardo both have better skill sets for that role.\r\n
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Now writing for The Hardball Times
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\r\nFollow me on Twitter for article updates @baseballATeam
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Originally Posted by
The A Team\r\n

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??
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\r\nHe\'s a good reliever, I like him. He\'s just not an ideal first division set up man. Aumont and Bastardo both have better skill sets for that role.
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I agree with this. The draw for a guy like Lopez though was his ground ball rate and performance, plus a cheap, minimal cost contract. Just another guy I won\'t be losing sleep over not getting. I just worry we will overspend for a guy like Adams, who is great for sure. Spending a lot on a set-up guy limits the ability to improve two outfield spots though.\r\n
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Originally Posted by
Swashcuff\r\n

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There is thing called basketball go on google and search the images of it okay.... When you do just picture Carmelo doing anything possible with it...... After that picture someone who does every single one of those things better.... That\'s Kevin Durant.
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Originally Posted by
ElChinoLatino\r\n

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why don\'t you add charisma and friendship, I think those are two other top qualities an NBA player can have next to "loving others for who they are".
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\r\n Phillies in Serious Trade Talks for Wilton Lopez\r\n
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\r\n Walden > Lopez by far as a set up man. get it done.\r\n
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Phillies Redskins Flyers
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Originally Posted by
BigLee53\r\n

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Walden > Lopez by far as a set up man. get it done.
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My issue with this is that the price for Walden will be conceivably higher in terms of prospects. I worry Ruben will trade one of our young SPs in Biddle, Morgan, May, Martin or Pettibone. Plus guys like Watson and Gueller who we just drafted, although i don\'t believe then can be traded yet.
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\r\nPosition prospects I\'d like to avoid trading: Joseph, Asche, Franco, L. Green, Walding, Quinn, Ruf.
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\r\nRelievers: Aumont, Diekman, Bonilla, De Fratus
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\r\nBasically I\'m too fond of some of our prospects haha, but anyone else is fair game to me.\r\n
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Originally Posted by
Swashcuff\r\n

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There is thing called basketball go on google and search the images of it okay.... When you do just picture Carmelo doing anything possible with it...... After that picture someone who does every single one of those things better.... That\'s Kevin Durant.
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Originally Posted by
ElChinoLatino\r\n

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why don\'t you add charisma and friendship, I think those are two other top qualities an NBA player can have next to "loving others for who they are".
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\r\n I think Aumont is Madson 2.0. He has a breakout \'13.
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\r\nI\'m all for keeping our specs for a few years until we can sell them as can\'t-miss and fork them over to LAA for Trout in 3 years, a la Drabek, Taylor, etc.
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\r\nWhile I\'m at it, Ruf is Luzinksi, Jr. Just put him out there and let him hit. Pull him in the 7th. We can afford to do this if we land Hamilton, which we will.\r\n
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PROUD CHARTER MEMBER: Phillies PSD HAll of Fame, Class of \'08.\r\n

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Originally Posted by
Ender\r\n

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I think Aumont is Madson 2.0. He has a breakout \'13.
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\r\nI\'m all for keeping our specs for a few years until we can sell them as can\'t-miss and fork them over to LAA for Trout in 3 years, a la Drabek, Taylor, etc.
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\r\nWhile I\'m at it, Ruf is Luzinksi, Jr. Just put him out there and let him hit. Pull him in the 7th. We can afford to do this if we land Hamilton, which we will.
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Don\'t think you can risk that after what happened last year, we need a proven setup man to start the season. Can Aumont develop into that during the course of the season? Sure, but I wouldn\'t bet on that by any means.\r\n
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DANNY B #48
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\r\n As for Lopez, he\'s put together a very good last 3 seasons, but he was also pitching for an irrelevant team with no pressure. Don\'t know how that would translate to Philadelphia IMO.
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\nThat being said, beggers can\'t be choosers and it\'s a shame that we found something damaged in a guy who had a very impressive 2.17 ERA in 66 innings last season. With the way our bullpen was last year, just about anything is an upgrade at this point.\r\n
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DANNY B #48
\r\nLETS GO FLYERS
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Originally Posted by
bringbackfredex\r\n

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Don\'t think you can risk that after what happened last year, we need a proven setup man to start the season. Can Aumont develop into that during the course of the season? Sure, but I wouldn\'t bet on that by any means.
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My gut tells me he flips the switch this year. Remember the first time Madson went from 91-92 to 98-99? I think we see that same light go off for Aumont. I believe he and Madson are at comparable points in their career when it clicked for Mad Dog.
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\r\nI base this on nothing beyond instinct.
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\r\nSign Hamilton, stick Ruf in LF, Brown in RF and let them play until they prove that they can\'t.\r\n
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PROUD CHARTER MEMBER: Phillies PSD HAll of Fame, Class of \'08.\r\n

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\r\n If only Walden didn\'t walk 4 guys per 9 over the past two years... I\'ll pass on giving him the setup role.
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\r\nDon\'t get me wrong, I like him.. But if you\'re going to say that Lopez is unproven as a setup man, then how could Walden possibly be a better fit?\r\n
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\r\n Madson didn\'t really turn into what he is now until his 5th year in the league, which was \'08. Also, Madson never had issues to fix like Aumont does now. His walk rate is still ridiculous. Madson was always a really solid pitcher when he was young, but once he added life to his fastball, he took off.
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\r\nI still like Aumont a lot, but I think he\'ll take a much different path than Madson did. I hope he\'ll figure it out sooner than Madson.\r\n
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\r\n Guess we\'ll find out.\r\n
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PROUD CHARTER MEMBER: Phillies PSD HAll of Fame, Class of \'08.\r\n

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ALL YOUR ACE ARE BELONG TO US.
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\r\n Lopez IMO was going to be a great addition. He was going to be a late inning pitcher, who has expierence as a closer to give Papelbon a break every so often. He was under team control for 3 seasons and was schedule for a paycheck between 1.5 and 2 million.
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\r\nAmaro has the right ideas this offseason, spend money wisely were you can. Madson signed for 7 million coming off injury and wont pitch when the season starts. Lopez was going to be a cheap option with great potential.\r\n
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\r\n Lopez is a better version of David Herndon.
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\nYou want late inning relievers to miss bats, but if the batter does make contact, to hit it on the ground. Lopez does one of these things well.\r\n
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Long Drive: A Phillies Blog
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@LineyPLD on Twitter
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Member:
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\r\nEagles PSD Hall Of Fame, Inaugural Class of 2009
\r\nSixers PSD Hall Of Fame, Class of 2010
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Lopez is a better version of David Herndon.
You want late inning relievers to miss bats, but if the batter does make contact, to hit it on the ground. Lopez does one of these things well.
Long Drive: A Phillies Blog
@LineyPLD on Twitter
Member:
Phillies PSD Hall Of Fame, Class of 2009
Eagles PSD Hall Of Fame, Inaugural Class of 2009
Sixers PSD Hall Of Fame, Class of 2010