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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by keymax View Post
    I agree. If people really want to protect themselves and their families they would be best served to do nothing and call the cops later on. Getting your gun and trying to be the hero rarely helps things at all.
    Not always true. I grew up in a very small town in Maine where a girl was removed from her home, taken into a small cave behind her house in the middle of the night, bound, raped, and stabbed to death. That's what doing nothing and waiting on the police can do.You can't just assume someone breaking into your home is there to take the valbales and leave, unless they indicate so.

    A person not only has the option, but the duty to protect their family however they can when threatened. The issue is how much force is necessary to protect without it becomming excessive. the answer to that is situation dependant.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    Not always true. I grew up in a very small town in Maine where a girl was removed from her home, taken into a small cave behind her house in the middle of the night, bound, raped, and stabbed to death. That's what doing nothing and waiting on the police can do.You can't just assume someone breaking into your home is there to take the valbales and leave, unless they indicate so.

    A person not only has the option, but the duty to protect their family however they can when threatened. The issue is how much force is necessary to protect without it becomming excessive. the answer to that is situation dependant.
    When he says it's rare i think he is acknowledging that its not always true.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    When he says it's rare i think he is acknowledging that its not always true.
    I read the "rare" context differently. I'm not in favor of anyone dying uneccessarily, but I disagree with his statement that a firearm would rarely help in the context of a home invasion. If used with restraint and discipline, a firearm can often be a critical tool to keeping a family safe.

    But that's just the thing. Restraint and discipline should be a given when talking about the use of a firearm. This situaiton clearly doesn't qualify. And that's why asshats with weapons really piss me off. They are devaluing the argument of responsible owners of firearms everywhere.

  4. #79
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    Ask yourself this then...why are NON lethal, options not more popular?
    Tazers are legal in almost every state..Bird shot or bean bag rounds...
    but go on ANY second amendment advocacy site and the posts are all the same,
    "just give me a chance, LORD, please..."

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    I read the "rare" context differently. I'm not in favor of anyone dying uneccessarily, but I disagree with his statement that a firearm would rarely help in the context of a home invasion. If used with restraint and discipline, a firearm can often be a critical tool to keeping a family safe.

    But that's just the thing. Restraint and discipline should be a given when talking about the use of a firearm. This situaiton clearly doesn't qualify. And that's why asshats with weapons really piss me off. They are devaluing the argument of responsible owners of firearms everywhere.
    The base rate of home invasion is very low. The rate of those where the criminals are interested in anything but stealing your **** is a rare subset of a low probability event.

    So home invasion where there is no harm to anything but property >>>>>>>> home invasion where there is intended harm to you or your family.

    Thus the probability that a fire arm will escalate the situation therefore is rather high.

    I have no doubt that most soldier or police officers have the training to show the restraint that is necessary, and the intelligence to conduct themselves in a manner that doesn't escalate the situation. But just cause you have had gun safety training does not mean you are ready to enter a combat situation. The stress of that situation is not something that you can prepare someone for without real training (I believe). So you have a guy , untrained for the stress of combat, sneaking around their own house like they have seen on theTV, prepared to use deadly force on a person who is likely there to steal his tv and has a good probability of being armed himself. Bang bang bang.

    I don't disagree with the right to bear arms. I just think we should be honest about the above situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  6. #81
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    its almost infintesimal, but some news sources and buisnesses sell fear and hyper vigilance..Guns sales, security windows and locks, alarm systems, news shows all benefit from selling the idea we are in grave danger from physical harm.

  7. #82
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    As a general Rule , people (and animals) do not commit acts of random Violence.
    there is usually some other goal, Im not imply we should surrender our property to thieves but the notion of being Murdered by a couple of thugs looking forf a TV to boost is a liitle ridiculous.
    Robbery is 5-10...
    Murder can be 25-life, or death.
    so if you are of the opinion that someones life is worth less then your property as long as you are within legal guidlines, I dont agree, but at least you are acting on an understanding of REALITY.

  8. #83
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    The examples of gun owners who act or are blood thirsty like that are also the rarity. I also bet many of the people who say "lord just give me a chance" are mostly just talking **** on the internet. I know a few. The reality is that you don't know someones intent when they break into your home. I would also hope and think most gun owners are looking to get the person out 1st. But I would also assume anyone who keeps coming at me has the worst intentions and react accordingly. They're the ones in MY home.

    The scenario where the police are not available right away is not really "rare". Many people live in spread out rural areas in this country. The population isn't as high as the cities, but who cares. The constitution protects everyone.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephkyle7 View Post
    its almost infintesimal, but some news sources and buisnesses sell fear and hyper vigilance..Guns sales, security windows and locks, alarm systems, news shows all benefit from selling the idea we are in grave danger from physical harm.
    this same news media? http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...5/153427.shtml

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gormans Mic View Post
    The examples of gun owners who act or are blood thirsty like that are also the rarity. I also bet many of the people who say "lord just give me a chance" are mostly just talking **** on the internet. I know a few. The reality is that you don't know someones intent when they break into your home. I would also hope and think most gun owners are looking to get the person out 1st. But I would also assume anyone who keeps coming at me has the worst intentions and react accordingly. They're the ones in MY home.

    The scenario where the police are not available right away is not really "rare". Many people live in spread out rural areas in this country. The population isn't as high as the cities, but who cares. The constitution protects everyone.
    Well said.

  11. #86
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    I certainly respect and understand "frontier" living mentallity when your in the sticks...Your "intruder" could easily be a critter of some sort(LOL), And I will also agree that a large portion of those "begging" for the chance are probabaly full Of sh..I saw plenty of kids like that in the military, all "hardcore" until they got down range...
    as always there should be a middle ground somewhere.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephkyle7 View Post
    As tragic as the story is, my intent in bringing it to the table was to thry and break more people out of the insular bubbles of conservative entertainment TV/Radio.

    If you are a fiscal/social conservative thats great...I tend not to agree with the ideology, and it strikes me on its surface a narrow minded when it only appeals to the few that it benefits....but if youve placed serious consideration
    in the ideas, then what more can someone ask of you.

    My problem is with FOX.
    Its not enough to present conservative ideals, they are always rabble rousing...whipping people up into a frenzy of anger,hate,suspicion, and intolerance.
    Like I pointed out, the chances of being murdered in a home invasion are like 1 in 100 million.Throw in the fact that they were two kids...take a look at these hardened criminals
    http://www.grandforksherald.com/even...20Brady,%2017/

    I attribute a lot of the hysteria to people being agitated into a state of hyper vigilance , much like PTSD, from watching a network that tells them everynight that a socialist,muslim,foreigner, along with a horde of pink-o liberals has stolen their country from them.
    Fox is not generally a good example of a news channel and neither is MSNBC. Your team (such a stupid concept) is just as interested in rallying the left around their talking points.

  13. #88
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    How about we dont put down Fox News ok?

  14. #89
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    Or CNN

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by GasMan View Post
    Fox is not generally a good example of a news channel and neither is MSNBC. Your team (such a stupid concept) is just as interested in rallying the left around their talking points.
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

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