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Thread: Zack Greinke

  1. #16
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    The fact of the matter is this.

    Are we going to have to overpay to get Greinke? Yes. Are we going to have to overpay a decent amount? Probably.

    I am torn on this. In once sense, $160 million for 5 years could go both ways.

    On the other hand, there is this to consider. We have to have an ace. No matter what. The current rotation we have cannot win a World Series. We need a workhorse we can bring out there. If we don't get Greinke, the only other option is give up the farm for a trade, then more than likely have to sign the guy again anyway.

    Also worth noting, I have researched, the only top tier pitcher next free agent period 2013-14 is Matt Garza and Tim Lincecum. Garza is not an ace, and Lincecum was absolutely horrible last season. However, with a strong bounceback he could be made back into one. He IS an ace, that was off last season. Other than that there is noone.

    In 2014-15, the doors open a bit with Kershaw, Verlander, Felix, Lester and a few more. However, many will probably be resigned.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by vigilantex69 View Post
    The fact of the matter is this.

    Are we going to have to overpay to get Greinke? Yes. Are we going to have to overpay a decent amount? Probably.

    I am torn on this. In once sense, $160 million for 5 years could go both ways.

    On the other hand, there is this to consider. We have to have an ace. No matter what. The current rotation we have cannot win a World Series. We need a workhorse we can bring out there. If we don't get Greinke, the only other option is give up the farm for a trade, then more than likely have to sign the guy again anyway.

    Also worth noting, I have researched, the only top tier pitcher next free agent period 2013-14 is Matt Garza and Tim Lincecum. Garza is not an ace, and Lincecum was absolutely horrible last season. However, with a strong bounceback he could be made back into one. He IS an ace, that was off last season. Other than that there is noone.

    In 2014-15, the doors open a bit with Kershaw, Verlander, Felix, Lester and a few more. However, many will probably be resigned.
    I seriously doubt Kershaw, unless he absolutely wants to leave LA, will be on the open market. The Dodgers are going to throw a crap load of money at him. I don't think Verlander is going to be available either. Felix and Lester are the only two question marks. I really wonder how long Felix is going to toil in mediocrity and waste his talent for the Mariners. Even if you really like some place, after a while, the losing is going to get old. That's a long time from now though.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by vigilantex69 View Post
    The Zips analysis is an interesting argument, but honestly I am pretty old school with an ERA is an ERA. You can nickel and dime with witchcraft all you want but ERA has always and will always be a very good indicator of how a pitcher does. That also being said, wins are absolutely the most garbage statistic to use when judging a pitcher.
    That's a pretty ignorant thing to say.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    That's a pretty ignorant thing to say.
    I'm just saying, you can make excuses for what they are but Greinke's ERA is a perfectly fine way to judge him. I have seen several instances where pitchers are made to look better than they really are by not looking at their ERA.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by vigilantex69 View Post
    I'm just saying, you can make excuses for what they are but Greinke's ERA is a perfectly fine way to judge him. I have seen several instances where pitchers are made to look better than they really are by not looking at their ERA.
    But ERA isn't some direct stat. That's kind of ridiculous to blame him if he plays in front of a mediocre or poor defense. Not every time a defender can't make a play is an error. Elvis has a huge range and makes his pitchers better, not many shortstops can do what Elvis does. Having a bad bullpen give up inherited runs is also something that the pitcher has little control over. Runners get on base, it happens to every pitcher. But it's not always on you that they got home.

    Also, there's certainly luck based on where balls land. You could run the season 1000 times and you would likely never see it wind up the exact same. Sometimes balls just find holes, sometimes they just find players. ERA is a flawed stat, because it doesn't take in to account a number of very real factors outside of the pitcher's control. To act like it's the only thing we should judge pitchers by is being VERY close minded.
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  6. #21
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    I wonder if Grienke's aniexty disorders would pursuade him to not sign with a team such as the Dodgers. One also has to keep in mind the large personal income tax for Californian's. I believe their top tax rate is currently 10.3%.

    So say that the Dodgers offer Grienke 6 years $150M. Say that the Rangers offer 6 years, $130M. The Dodgers offer is actually really worth roughly $135M after the State of California claims their portion. Would Grienke rather play in a low key media market for $750k less a year?

    Just something to think about.

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  7. #22
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    His agent gets his 10% no matter what the income tax is so you know his agent is going to push for Greinke to take the the 150 over our 130 if that ended up being the offers he receives. The income tax pitch has rarely if ever worked in contract negotiations in any sport.
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  8. #23
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    Might wanna check that again. Texas, Florida, California, and Washington State don't have any STATE income tax.

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    Hence the reason why he'd sign with Texas. Lower Market and No State income tax (although I do agree that the no tax thing really has any effect on a players decision to sign with that team).

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by asmarks18 View Post
    His agent gets his 10% no matter what the income tax is so you know his agent is going to push for Greinke to take the the 150 over our 130 if that ended up being the offers he receives. The income tax pitch has rarely if ever worked in contract negotiations in any sport.
    I've heard that Greinke is more involved in where he ends up then other FAs in the past. I guess most players just leave it up to their agents to decide? That seems absurd.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sportsnut88 View Post
    Might wanna check that again. Texas, Florida, California, and Washington State don't have any STATE income tax.
    Ummm, YOU might want to check that again...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ma...x_on_wages.svg
    Last edited by BigDFan85; 12-06-2012 at 10:45 AM.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I've heard that Greinke is more involved in where he ends up then other FAs in the past. I guess most players just leave it up to their agents to decide? That seems absurd.
    I heard that too. Apparently when he met with Boston he had a whole report on their farm system. The Red Sox GM was on the Hot Stove saying he, Greinke, knew more about the Red Sox farm than he, the Red Sox GM, did. I guess it just goes to show you he might be one of the few actually concerned about winning. I think the guys that leave it all up to their agents only care about money.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDFan85 View Post
    I heard that too. Apparently when he met with Boston he had a whole report on their farm system. The Red Sox GM was on the Hot Stove saying he, Greinke, knew more about the Red Sox farm than he, the Red Sox GM, did. I guess it just goes to show you he might be one of the few actually concerned about winning. I think the guys that leave it all up to their agents only care about money.
    Didn't know that part about Boston. Makes me like the dude even more.

  14. #29
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    The Dodgers don't want to include a no trade clause, you guys will get him, maybe even for a bit less than the reported amounts offered if a no trade clause is included.

  15. #30
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    I honestly would call up the Rays and Offer Profar straight up for Price
    Question is; if you add Price to the team last season does that make them exponentially better, if yes then do it and resign Josh


    I am also a huge proponent of trading Nelson Cruz
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