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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Why don't you bring up that in 2011 in a more normal hitting park he had the very non special slash of: .254/.353/.393



    Maybe that's why they want to deal him. Maybe they think he has warning track power.
    Omaha, his home park, isn't really the offensive haven other PCL parks are, in fact it's probably not that much different than Pawtucket.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    What was it 90 odd games... A top spec playing injured. Hmmmm.... I guess you are the expert on this fellow.

    OK Mr. Expert - explain logically why KC wants to deal this player, and please avoid the easy way out of labeling the KC franchise as inept.
    KC could be growing restless of hoping these elite prospects pan out, Arizona recently gave up Carlos González and Brett Anderson for Dan Haren then a few years later flipped Parker and Cook for Cahill.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    What was it 90 odd games... A top spec playing injured. Hmmmm.... I guess you are the expert on this fellow.

    OK Mr. Expert - explain logically why KC wants to deal this player, and please avoid the easy way out of labeling the KC franchise as inept.
    There's no need to be patronizing. Nowhere have I claimed to be an expert on him, I have however read a lot on him. He tore up his knee in an accident at home and it got infected. He missed a month, and all of the reports I've read on him that mention it say he didn't look the same afterwards.

    Because KC thinks the only thing their missing from being a playoff contender is starting pitching. They have had bad luck with their pitching prospects because of injuries and disappointments like Hochevar. So they traded a rp prospect to get Ervin Santana and his expensive option year. And gave Guthrie $25M because they like him so much. They think the biggest thing they are missing is an ace to lead their staff, so they figured their best course of action is to shop their best prospect, who plays a position that they view as blocked on the big league roster, for the best pitcher they can get to lead their staff and team to the playoffs.

    I can understand not liking the deal and wishing for young major league talent. I don't understand being vehemently against acquiring a player who is considered one of the best overall prospects in the game by every single prospect expert.

  4. #184
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by -lavigne43- View Post
    there's no need to be patronizing. Nowhere have i claimed to be an expert on him, i have however read a lot on him. He tore up his knee in an accident at home and it got infected. He missed a month, and all of the reports i've read on him that mention it say he didn't look the same afterwards.

    Because kc thinks the only thing their missing from being a playoff contender is starting pitching. They have had bad luck with their pitching prospects because of injuries and disappointments like hochevar. So they traded a rp prospect to get ervin santana and his expensive option year. And gave guthrie $25m because they like him so much. They think the biggest thing they are missing is an ace to lead their staff, so they figured their best course of action is to shop their best prospect, who plays a position that they view as blocked on the big league roster, for the best pitcher they can get to lead their staff and team to the playoffs.


    I can understand not liking the deal and wishing for young major league talent. I don't understand being vehemently against acquiring a player who is considered one of the best overall prospects in the game by every single prospect expert.
    +1

  5. #185
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    Its not like top specs never get traded. There's motives for everything and there'd be risk for both sides.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
    Its not like top specs never get traded. There's motives for everything and there'd be risk for both sides.
    I've heard arguments against the deal -- specifically from Mazz, who's skeptical of WM's value.

    If Myers is in fact the real deal, wouldn't KC be in the hunt for someone in the highest echelon of arms? Lester will still eat innings and could likely be a viable, top-15 pitcher; but the command issues and reduced velocity (in tandem) might be trouble.

    For me, the peculiarity isn't KC wanting to ship out a top MLB spec -- it's wanting to ship out a top MLB spec for Lester.... That leads me to believe it's a 'pump and dump' after all....

    It's hard to argue JL's career is on an upward trajectory, with his best days ahead. So maybe it's equal value after all: overrated spec for declining arm, and one team's desperation for pitching.
    Last edited by elements1985; 11-28-2012 at 03:33 AM.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by elements1985 View Post
    I've heard arguments against the deal -- specifically from Mazz, who's skeptical of WM's value.

    If Myers is in fact the real deal, wouldn't KC be in the hunt for someone in the highest echelon of arms? Lester will still eat innings and could likely be a viable, top-15 pitcher; but the command issues and reduced velocity (in tandem) might be trouble.

    For me, the peculiarity isn't KC wanting to ship out a top MLB spec -- it's wanting to ship out a top MLB spec for Lester.... That leads me to believe it's a 'pump and dump' after all....

    It's hard to argue JL's career is on an upward trajectory, with his best days ahead. So maybe it's equal value after all: overrated spec for declining arm, and one team's desperation for pitching.
    The question is who else is available that is better? It's not a strong market so they may see Lester as the top guy available.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Lavigne43- View Post
    I don't understand being vehemently against acquiring a player who is considered one of the best overall prospects in the game by every single prospect expert.
    I certainly understand the AL Central is weak, and this might be the best time in a long time for KC to make a move (so perhaps the KC FO isn't so stupid after all....)

    I also understand the pros and cons of Lester and his situation both past and possible futures. BTW if he's healthy he's liable to post top 8 rWAR SP numbers in that situation, so the Sox back biter fans of which I will be in this case will have something to go to battle with.

    What I don't see is more than a poster or two in this whole thread that doesn't think Wil Myers is the human version of a ginsu knife and sure HOF'er. I am vehemently against the "slam dunk" move, because like the shell game, the viewer becomes hypnotized by what he is sure is right, only to find that he's been duped. Are U sure KC is that ****ing stupid to be giving away a 5x All Star? If he was so great why wasn't he called up last year? They had garbage in RF.

    If Myers isn't ~Jim Rice but turns out to be average, or worse, then BC and crew will have yet more back biting to deal with.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 11-28-2012 at 08:52 AM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
    Lol here we go again.

    I dont think it makes sense for us to trade for him. I think we could try and get Lincecum honestly. Taking on his contract wouldnt be too horrible after losing Lester's, and it gives us a guy with an ace ceiling. Hopefully he can perform at least to a #3.
    LOL yeah I was being sarcastic.
    Perfection.

  10. #190
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    Looks like nothing will get done with KC, but that doesn't mean Lester won't get traded anytime soon. It's difficult to make up my mind about this. We need pitching pitching pitching, so it might not be the best idea to get rid of a pitcher that is supposed to be the backbone of your rotation, on the other hand that's a model the A's have been doing for a while with good success.
    We could be sitting here next off-season and realize that we should have cashed in on Lester 1 year earlier, just like with Jacoby. We knew it was tough to extend him and could have gotten a kings ransom for him last year. Difference is, we thought we were contenders. This year? Not so much. So where's the point in keeping Lester if we can get a piece (not necessarily Myers) that makes us better in the long run?

    Still think the Rangers might be interested, their pitching isn't all that great and it looks like Feliz is heading back to the bullpen. Couple him with Ellsbury and fetch a nice return, that's it.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirHizz View Post
    Looks like nothing will get done with KC, but that doesn't mean Lester won't get traded anytime soon. It's difficult to make up my mind about this. We need pitching pitching pitching, so it might not be the best idea to get rid of a pitcher that is supposed to be the backbone of your rotation, on the other hand that's a model the A's have been doing for a while with good success.
    We could be sitting here next off-season and realize that we should have cashed in on Lester 1 year earlier, just like with Jacoby. We knew it was tough to extend him and could have gotten a kings ransom for him last year. Difference is, we thought we were contenders. This year? Not so much. So where's the point in keeping Lester if we can get a piece (not necessarily Myers) that makes us better in the long run?

    Still think the Rangers might be interested, their pitching isn't all that great and it looks like Feliz is heading back to the bullpen. Couple him with Ellsbury and fetch a nice return, that's it.
    Peter A says that the Sox should get more for Lester then Myers.

    Fine. Let's hear about Gordon and Perez. And we can talk about Salty and Lavarnway, and Jacobs, Brentz, and Kalish, and Aceves, Bard

    As far as keeping Lester, by not yoking him to Salty, and having pros catch and coach him, he can be what he has been in his career. The best home grown/keeper Red Sox SP since Clemens. You think that just grows on trees?
    Last edited by bagwell368; 11-28-2012 at 08:59 AM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  12. #192
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    They're not trading away Gordon or Perez. The whole reason they're rumored to be dangling Myers is that they don't want to remove any good, young pieces already established on their major league team. They like the lineup they have (don't 100% know why but with bounce backs and growth I guess I can see it) and think they just need some top of the rotation pitching to compete in that division.

    Myers is much more likely to be dealt than Gordon or Perez. Simply because he's not established in the majors yet.

    Edited to add: Peter A also wrote a fairly poor evaluation of that potential trade, in my opinion only of course.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMP83 View Post
    They're not trading away Gordon or Perez. The whole reason they're rumored to be dangling Myers is that they don't want to remove any good, young pieces already established on their major league team. They like the lineup they have (don't 100% know why but with bounce backs and growth I guess I can see it) and think they just need some top of the rotation pitching to compete in that division.

    Myers is much more likely to be dealt than Gordon or Perez. Simply because he's not established in the majors yet.

    Edited to add: Peter A also wrote a fairly poor evaluation of that potential trade, in my opinion only of course.
    Well, that's who I am interested in. They want our good younger players, then it will cost. Move on to another trading partner. As a GM I would be interested in short term FA's (mostly two or less years, a 3 year or two would be OK), or deals of existing pieces for young proven players with either lots of control, or an extension period as part of the deal.

    This is why Andrus, Gordon, and guys like that make sense.

    Perez? I wouldn't deal him either, unless the get was huge, he might be the next Yadier. I'd consider tossing them a ready made catching tandem of Salty/Lavarnway and Lester and say Barnes - for Perez, Myers, and a kid a smidge below Barnes. But I can't see just dealing a proven player for a guy that wasn't even granted a cup of coffee in September.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    I certainly understand the AL Central is weak, and this might be the best time in a long time for KC to make a move (so perhaps the KC FO isn't so stupid after all....)

    I also understand the pros and cons of Lester and his situation both past and possible futures. BTW if he's healthy he's liable to post top 8 rWAR SP numbers in that situation, so the Sox back biter fans of which I will be in this case will have something to go to battle with.

    What I don't see is more than a poster or two in this whole thread that doesn't think Wil Myers is the human version of a ginsu knife and sure HOF'er. I am vehemently against the "slam dunk" move, because like the shell game, the viewer becomes hypnotized by what he is sure is right, only to find that he's been duped. Are U sure KC is that ****ing stupid to be giving away a 5x All Star? If he was so great why wasn't he called up last year? They had garbage in RF.

    If Myers isn't ~Jim Rice but turns out to be average, or worse, then BC and crew will have yet more back biting to deal with.
    So while you wouldn't happy with the return, it seems like you're more just attacking the prospect-worshipping that goes on around here. Is that right?

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Well, that's who I am interested in. They want our good younger players, then it will cost. Move on to another trading partner. As a GM I would be interested in short term FA's (mostly two or less years, a 3 year or two would be OK), or deals of existing pieces for young proven players with either lots of control, or an extension period as part of the deal.

    This is why Andrus, Gordon, and guys like that make sense.
    It's also why they're much more expensive to trade for.

    Perez? I wouldn't deal him either, unless the get was huge, he might be the next Yadier. I'd consider tossing them a ready made catching tandem of Salty/Lavarnway and Lester - for Perez and Myers. But I can't see just dealing a proven player for a guy that wasn't even granted a cup of coffee in September.
    Dayton Moore has an unhealthy relationship with Jeff Francouer. Unfortunately for Royals fans everywhere.

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