What does Advanced Stats tell you?

**nickdymez** · 11-26-2012, 04:47 PM

This forum is really the only place I've seen where advanced stats hold pretty much 85% of the weight when critiquing a player. So I ask, what do you really use them for? To compare players, or to get a better understanding of a players individual game?

**nickdymez** · 11-26-2012, 04:48 PM

lol. I know somone is going to have a field day with the tittle. Oh well...

**AddiX** · 11-26-2012, 04:52 PM

In psd it tells you what you want them to tell you.

It's only a matter of time before minny fans flood this thread showing us why advanced stats prove love is better than all time greats.

There's a place for them, but thru are incredibly overrated on psd, this isn't baseball.

**Chronz** · 11-26-2012, 04:53 PM

They tell me facts. You should learn how to use them, that way you dont have to bug me so often.

And how many boards do you visit because PSD is actually one of the places where less statistical analysis gos on IMO. I will admit alot of people misuse them tho.

**nickdymez** · 11-26-2012, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Chronz

They tell me facts. You should learn how to use them, that way you dont have to bug me so often.

And how many boards do you visit because PSD is actually one of the places where less statistical analysis gos on IMO. I will admit alot of people misuse them tho.

I dont talk to you about **** really. I dont know where your going with this comment.

**JasonJohnHorn** · 11-26-2012, 04:56 PM

I dunno... I know advance stats say Rodman was the best rebounder ever, but I also know that Wilt averaged 25 rebounds a game and Rodman never did that... lol. But Rodman played less minutes and also played when there were generally fewer possessions in a game, especially for hte defensive minded teams he played for like the Bulls and the Pistons.

They help a little, but need to be taken in context obviously. I'm not an advance stat expert so... I'm not really married to them.

**jmoney85** · 11-26-2012, 05:03 PM

I was once an advanced stats hater but I came around.

**SteveNash** · 11-26-2012, 05:05 PM

Advanced stats tell me that advanced stats are highly flawed.

**mightybosstone** · 11-26-2012, 05:07 PM

Advanced stats are a very nice basis to start a discussion about the effectiveness and production of NBA players, but they cannot be the entire argument. For example, David Robinson is second in career WS/48 and fourth in career PER, but I doubt anyone on this forum would put him in their top 10 all-time or say he was a better player than Shaq or Hakeem, both centers from the same era. Why? Because he was never the man on a championship team and he got dominated by Hakeem in the playoffs.

You have to have context for your numbers. Also, suppose you had a player from the 50s who posted great numbers or a player who only plays 15 minutes a game in today's NBA posting great numbers. Are those guys both better than someone like Kobe, who traditionally has not posted phenomenal advanced statistics? Of course not.

And yet any doubter of advanced statistics will sit there and scream until they're horse that advanced statistics are pointless or void of legitimacy. I don't understand why. Someone far smarter than any of us sat down and found a way to combine a player's production into a single number that is easy to reference. Why shouldn't we at least consider that as part of any NBA discussion?

**mightybosstone** · 11-26-2012, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by SteveNash

Advanced stats tell me that advanced stats are highly flawed.

How? I would love to hear someone explain to me how advanced statistics are flawed.

**xnick5757** · 11-26-2012, 05:10 PM

TS% and eFG% when used together tell you how efficient a shooter is

ORB%, DRB%, TRB% tells you what percentage of rebounds a player gets when he is on the floor

USG% tells you what percentage of plays used a specific player when he was on the floor

PER measures offensive production, and is readjusted every year so that the league average is 15

there's nothing really advanced about them, other than the fact they are newer than what are called the "traditional" stats

**Chronz** · 11-26-2012, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by nickdymez

I dont talk to you about **** really. I dont know where your going with this comment.

The thread where the guy admitted he didn't realize that what he was seeing wasn't reality. I used stats to inform him of the facts and that his eyes were lying to him. You showed up to deny the validity of my claim. After that post a few other posters chimed in to correct you. You never responded.

Its happened like that a few other times, I guess you dont bug me but you definitely show up, add your little anti-stat post (regardless of the context of its use) and then leave.

At the least can you stop saying I have a crew?

**nickdymez** · 11-26-2012, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by mightybosstone

Advanced stats are a very nice basis to start a discussion about the effectiveness and production of NBA players, but they cannot be the entire argument. For example, David Robinson is second in career WS/48 and fourth in career PER, but I doubt anyone on this forum would put him in their top 10 all-time or say he was a better player than Shaq or Hakeem, both centers from the same era. Why? Because he was never the man on a championship team and he got dominated by Hakeem in the playoffs.

You have to have context for your numbers. Also, suppose you had a player from the 50s who posted great numbers or a player who only plays 15 minutes a game in today's NBA posting great numbers. Are those guys both better than someone like Kobe, who traditionally has not posted phenomenal advanced statistics? Of course not.

And yet any doubter of advanced statistics will sit there and scream until they're horse that advanced statistics are pointless or void of legitimacy. I don't understand why. Someone far smarter than any of us sat down and found a way to combine a player's production into a single number that is easy to reference. Why shouldn't we at least consider that as part of any NBA discussion?

Good post. As for the last paragraph. Just because someone is far smarter than us, doesn't mean you have to agree with a formula they create. I understand them for the most part, but i just think they are better served in baseball..

**Chronz** · 11-26-2012, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by mightybosstone

How? I would love to hear someone explain to me how advanced statistics are flawed.

Because all stats are inherently flawed. What people need to understand is that APBR Metrics were created for a reason, the purpose was to improve our limited statistics. They have achieved that in spades, so if your the type who doesn't use stats, so be it but the people who defend the use of antiquated metrics (like Dymez) but oppose the use of superior metrics are the guys who need to jump on the trolly.

Either use stats or dont use stats, but if your going to use them, the least you could do is catchup on the stats the league your watching emphasizes in its business.

**nickdymez** · 11-26-2012, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Chronz

The thread where the guy admitted he didn't realize that what he was seeing wasn't reality. I used stats to inform him of the facts and that his eyes were lying to him. You showed up to deny the validity of my claim. After that post a few other posters chimed in to correct you. You never responded.

Its happened like that a few other times, I guess you dont bug me but you definitely show up, add your little anti-stat post (regardless of the context of its use) and then leave.

At the least can you stop saying I have a crew?

lol, my bad man, internet profiling at its finest on my part.

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