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  1. #1
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    Thoughts On Multiculturalism?

    i'm writing a critical analysis on multiculturalism and ethnic pluralism in sociology for my degree and since there's a wide variety of opinion on this forum i was wondering what you guys think? whats wrong with it in your community/life/country? what could be done to make it better?

    in our society i've kinda figured it runs into two categories:

    1. procedural liberalism... your private life is separate from public life and that the state is neutral and has no moral purpose.
    -dignity is universal
    -capable of incorporating all forms of culture because all values are equal
    -individual has right to their own identity
    -prevents any form of ethnocentrism/imperialism

    2. substantive liberalism...state is never neutral
    ex)state will choose a language(s) for communicating with its citinzens
    -established cultural values have something particular to say in the context of the state/nation
    -state as a power to defend individual rights but must be held accountable if they differ from established laws.
    -recognition and consequences of foreign cultural values so we know how we should see others and how we can envision dynamic relations from constitutional, institutional and practical points of view.

    Open for more ideas and opinion.

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    When you say "whats wrong with it in your community/life/country", what do you mean? I don't see what is wrong with multiculturalism at all. If people want to follow a different culture than I do, what right do I have to tell them to fall into line? You should read the last several posts in the GOP/Immigration thread to see where you get if you want to tell people that they have to assimilate to one culture. It is a bigoted approach to make people fall in line with your culture and abandon their own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    When you say "whats wrong with it in your community/life/country", what do you mean? I don't see what is wrong with multiculturalism at all. If people want to follow a different culture than I do, what right do I have to tell them to fall into line? You should read the last several posts in the GOP/Immigration thread to see where you get if you want to tell people that they have to assimilate to one culture. It is a bigoted approach to make people fall in line with your culture and abandon their own.
    the question is more aligned with the pluralism of multiculturalism, which isn't about assimilating ones culture, but integrating them into society, making sure they have a strong enough voice in our society. each culture has some sort of representation at the societal level, but is it enough? its kind of a hard concept since the USA and Canada are so different. American identity was established through immigration and its own unique history, while Canadian identity is more based on the "founding nations" of English, French and Aboriginal.

    i guess when i say "what is wrong with it"? i mean do you find that immigrants are more of a dismissed group? should there be more of an emphasis on social understanding not just for us but for them? i've met a lot of immigrants who don't know half of their rights. i've met a lot also that are fully qualified skilled workers, but cannot get their degrees or skills recognized by our gov't so they have to settle for driving cabs, working at 7/11 etc.

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    The answer to virtually all the questions you ask is "yes," and it's not really debatable. Just not sure where you're going with this or how you're writing a thesis on something that is self-evident.

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    Ill add this to your search.

    When you look around the Globe, Multiculturalism doesnt seem to be the trend of the world.Even here you have people gravitating towards ethnic and cultural densities.
    I dont think this can or will ever change.
    When you look out into the universe(stay with me for a second here LOL)the same principles hold true regarding elements: clouds, stars, planets, atmospheres all form with a predominate base.
    I think it is just the nature of things.
    We take strength from our multiculturalism and at the same time it is one of our greatest points of friction, many other countries have far less internal strife becasue being homogenous tends to foster a consensus.everyone supports one identity and direction, allowing for swifter progress to stated goals.

    For better or for worse, we have choosen this path, and there is no turning back, so we must try to mitigate conflict and appeal to a AMERICAN first consciousness to try and alleviate some of the barriers between us.

  6. #6
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    Frankly, I find multiculturalism to be a bit tiresome. It's gotten to the point where it constantly being forced on everyone. Now the Indians are complaining about a Victoria Secrets model wearing an Indian headdress.

    You could do what ever you want and most people don't really care. However, when you are operating in mainstream society one cultural fiber must prevail or that society will become weaker. Look at the military. Very effective in their performance, almost zero tolerance for being different. One culture. One way of doing things.

    The black hall of fame, black Miss America, special handshakes etc. weakens society as a whole and black people in general. Kwanzaa materializes out of nowhere to become a black holiday to compete wit Christmas. They don't even celebrate Kwanzaa in Africa. It is a made up holiday just to show "hey we're different." It puts blacks out of the mainstream and does them more harm than good. Others recognize it for what it is…being different for the sake of being different. Society as a whole, just shrugs, ignores it and moves on. Blacks look silly for giving it any attention at all.

    When I lived in New York it seemed like there was some sort of ethnic celebration every weekend in the summer yet very little was done on the fourth of July. St. Patricks Day was a big deal, ditto Columbus day. But the Fourth of July was pretty much an after thought.

    Every college seems to have a "club" for every group imaginable, often at taxpayer's expense and all they do is make themselves look elitist and separatist. Same with all these little flags dangling from the rear view mirror. The only person who cares that you came from somewhere else is someone else from that country. No one else cares where you're from and it makes you look like someone who strives to be different. No one cares.

    Someone's culture should not supersede the laws of the land. Arab cab drivers in Minneapolis refused to drive passengers returning from a cruise because they were carrying liquor. They should have been fired for not being able to perform the job. An Arab woman in Orlando refused to remove her headscarf or veil for a drivers license photo. Not sure how that worked out.

    You need to fit into the mainstream and holding onto another culture doesn't help. Every business has a culture and if you don't fit in you will be unemployable or will never advance. If that's ok with you, then by all means hold onto your culture. Bit if you want to get ahead, you need to fit in.

    Look at all the athletes that become announcers. When they were playing they were real "dudes" with wild hair, tattos, outrageous clothes and behavior etc. They become announcers and their entire image changes. They adapt to fit in.

    No one cares where you are from. All that matters is what you bring to the table. If you are proud of your culture, and you should be and you should always be aware of it, don't be overbearing with it. Doing so just makes others uncomfortable and resentful. It's not going to help you in the long run.

  7. #7
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    I have to admit I have no clue what statquo is talking about with procedural or substantive liberalism. I had a cross cultural psych class a long time ago, and I don't remember hearing about those.

    regardless I love multiculturalism. I think it's what makes our country special in the world. We have no singular culture... our culture grows and adapts with each group that comes here, with only a few guiding principals.

    The thing I miss most about New York is hearing 3 different languages every block. Not the gigantic fireworks display they put on every 4th of july... that shuts down the FDR drive or the hudson parkway or sometimes when money is good, both (The idea that the 4th is an afterthought in NYC is complete Bull ****.)
    Last edited by flips333; 11-13-2012 at 08:57 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    I have to admit I have no clue what statquo is talking about with procedural or substantive liberalism. I had a cross cultural psych class a long time ago, and I don't remember hearing about those.

    regardless I love multiculturalism. I think it's what makes our country special in the world. We have no singular culture... our culture grows and adapts with each group that comes here, with only a few guiding principals.

    The thing I miss most about New York is hearing 3 different languages every block. Not the gigantic fireworks display they put on every 4th of july... that shuts down the FDR drive or the hudson parkway or sometimes when money is good, both (The idea that the 4th is an afterthought in NYC is complete Bull ****.)

    Really or are you saying that to make a point?
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  9. #9
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    What's enjoyable about hearing languages that you cannot understand???

    Especially in a place where you have lived your entire life.

    I clearly remember leaving the Albee Square Mall in Brooklyn after going to three stores where no one spoke English and I couldn't buy what I wanted. What's enjoyable bout that.

    I also encountered a toll collector in Miami (public employee) whose English was so bad she could not give me directions. The she seemed to think that was funny. What's enjoyable about that????

    We need to be a little realistic here.

    As far as the 4th of July in NYC…every major city puts on a fireworks displays. But where are the community organized street festivals that all these nationalities love so much? Non existent on the 4th.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomota48 View Post
    What's enjoyable about hearing languages that you cannot understand???

    Especially in a place where you have lived your entire life.

    I clearly remember leaving the Albee Square Mall in Brooklyn after going to three stores where no one spoke English and I couldn't buy what I wanted. What's enjoyable bout that.

    I also encountered a toll collector in Miami (public employee) whose English was so bad she could not give me directions. The she seemed to think that was funny. What's enjoyable about that????

    We need to be a little realistic here.

    As far as the 4th of July in NYC…every major city puts on a fireworks displays. But where are the community organized street festivals that all these nationalities love so much? Non existent on the 4th.

    I think it can be fun sometimes. When someone is speaking a different language you notice body language more, tone, etc. It can be funny.

    Still, if i left a town or city i don't think over hearing over hearing some turk make undecipherable noises would be near the top of my list of things I miss.

    Maybe the beautiful women, the ability to walk to a variety of great food, friends, a bar where everyone knew my name etc. Maybe he is full of **** We'll see
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomota48 View Post
    What's enjoyable about hearing languages that you cannot understand???

    Especially in a place where you have lived your entire life.

    I clearly remember leaving the Albee Square Mall in Brooklyn after going to three stores where no one spoke English and I couldn't buy what I wanted. What's enjoyable bout that.

    I also encountered a toll collector in Miami (public employee) whose English was so bad she could not give me directions. The she seemed to think that was funny. What's enjoyable about that????

    We need to be a little realistic here.

    As far as the 4th of July in NYC…every major city puts on a fireworks displays. But where are the community organized street festivals that all these nationalities love so much? Non existent on the 4th.
    Because I like to be reminded of the fact that I could smell the smoke from the hookas in little egypt. Because I like to be able to get authetic perogies in greenpoint, get great korean BBQ in korea town. I like that I can experience the cultures of the carriabian in insane parades every year. Because I like to be reminded that I don't live in a homogenous white bread society. I like to not know what to expect, and continually learn new things. Different cultures bring different perspectives. Makes us more creative. It gives us a cultural strength, like mixing genes gives us a strength against illness.

    Whatever dude they shut down the busiest roads in Manhattan what the **** more do you want? Really. Go live somewhere where everyone is the same if that's what you want.

    You lost and asking a toll collector, and getting pissy because she can't get you directions. That's funny in a Schadenfreude kind of way.

    I'm not saying that people shouldn't learn English I'm just saying that the benefits of having multiple cultures is far more important than little inconveniences that people may have when they encounter one.
    Last edited by flips333; 11-13-2012 at 11:28 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  12. #12
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    Ewing

    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    Because I like to be reminded of the fact that I could smell the smoke from the hookas in little egypt. Because I like to be able to get authetic perogies in greenpoint, get great korean BBQ in korea town. I like that I can experience the cultures of the carriabian in insane parades every year. Because I like to be reminded that I don't live in a homogenous white bread society. I like to not know what to expect, and continually learn new things. Different cultures bring different perspectives. Makes us more creative. It gives us a cultural strength, like mixing genes gives us a strength against illness.

    Whatever dude they shut down the busiest roads in Manhattan what the **** more do you want? Really. Go live somewhere where everyone is the same if that's what you want.

    You lost and asking a toll collector, and getting pissy because she can't get you directions. That's funny in a Schadenfreude kind of way.

    So hearing different languages would remind you of all these experiences and and therefore it's overhearing the languages that you miss most. you are deep!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    So hearing different languages would remind you of all these experiences and and therefore it's overhearing the languages that you miss most. you are deep!
    You know what I miss most when I'm not on PSD. Sarcastic folks with nothing to add.
    Last edited by flips333; 11-13-2012 at 11:31 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  14. #14
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    Flip,

    You completely miss the point about multiculturalism. I enjoy all that stuff too. Some more than others because some of the foods are a bit hard to take but give me a German, Greek or Italian food festival anytime.

    The problem with multiculturalism is that it keeps huge numbers of people unemployable. And as soon as they have difficulties getting by they look to the state (read that me) for help.

    The other problem is that all these people demanding cultural sensitivity come from places that do not grant any understanding of cultures other than their own.

    Just fit in man, use chopsticks if you want but you still need to fit in.

    Just a hunch here but is John Lennon's Imagine one of your favorite songs? Great song but you do know it is totally unrealistic. You know that don't you????

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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    You know what I miss most when I'm not on PSD. Sarcastic folks with nothing to add.

    I might be sarcastic but only b/c your explanation is doesn't make sense. Overhearing people is not what you miss.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

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