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View Poll Results: Is Bryan Colangelo good for this team long term

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  • Keep Colangelo long term

    30 47.62%
  • He sucks he needs to go

    33 52.38%
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Thread: Bryan Colangelo

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    It has the potential to be that. It has it written all over it. And in the end we'd be stuck with the massive contracts. Not saying it WILL happen, just that it's the same kind of wildly risky deal the JO deal was.
    not sure why people pan that deal so much. he had the framework for a very solid team in place after that deal. in my opinion he panicked when it didn't show immediate results.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    not sure why people pan that deal so much. he had the framework for a very solid team in place after that deal. in my opinion he panicked when it didn't show immediate results.
    tbh I think the reason it is so badly remembered is because it fell so far short of the absurd TWIN TOWERS expectations.

    I was referring mainly to the injury potential and the counting chickens before they've hatched expectations.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freakazoid View Post
    Meh if MLSE isn't limiting him, he'll be fired. If MLSE is limiting him, we should see better signings in the future.

    But I don't get how a signing like Fields is a result of MLSE.
    The buzz at the time was that MLSE wanted Nash badly for ticket revenue,mBC thought Lowry was the better guard/fit. MLSE asked BC to block the Nash to NY chance. Personally, I doubt BC had targeted Landry for the summers big move for SF.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    playing scared is no way to build a winner.
    but its something to think about. how many good or great gm's are out there to be had ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    question: what do you think the reaction would be if Casey went to Colangelo's office and said I think your boy is bench material?
    its been done before.

    but if bargs has half a good season as a starter he could be traded. does B.C want to trade him or not is a different story. i dont think he will be as hesitant to move bargs now that jonas is here and showing us good signs of being a legit C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rapsfanforlife View Post
    I think that if he has a case for it, its well recieved. I am very sure that BC is shopping everyone on the team - as long as the return is worth while, then he'll pull the trigger.
    B.C has never been shy to make moves. i really think he has been encouraged to remain patient through this rebuild. I also think he isnt done with this rebuild and a move or two will be made to tweek it. bargs could very well be apart of that move imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameBreaker View Post
    What we should try and remember is that BC has the same vision and love for Jonas and waited, tooth and nail, to get him on ACC ground and the kid has not disappointed. I really hope he gets ROY looks because his numbers and learning capacity is amazing. BC did great there. I still think Terrence Ross was good pick-up but needs more PT. DD is turning out to be a great pick, as well. Lowry was a great get. So, I mean, aside from some farts..I think BC is doing his best.
    absolutley. lowry could easily be our biggest free agent signing. no one gives credit where its due there. ross could impress with more time. jonas is already impressing and could be the reason bargs finally gets shipped out.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Guys, we're a SF away.
    Absolute best case scenerio, we keep losing in OT, retain our top 3 pick, and draft muhammad.
    Lowry/calderon (awesome combo)
    Derozan/Ross (nothing wrong there)
    Kleiza/Anderson/Fields/McGuire... (maybe keep McGuire and Anderson/Kleiza for role player reasons)
    Bargnani/Davis/Johnson (quality rotation + amir is eligable to be amnistied when Davis makes him useless)
    Val/gray (I have no problem with gray as a vet backup, and obviously Val is the future)

    BC has put together a team with depth and potential at every position, except SF. You guys want to let the guy go just before he completes his vision? Even if we don't retain our first pick, we have pieces to fill that hole through trade, or make a bit of cap space to sign someone. In BC I still trust. Getting a new GM would set us back at least a couple years IMO.
    cant disagree. we have the pieces. we need them to mature. a move or two to get the small fwd this team desperatley needs could get us where we want to be. plus our guys are still maturing and learning at this point.

    -whens the last time the raptors could say they had a legit C
    -lowry and calderon have to be the best pg combination in terms of depth
    -ross, jonas, ed still very young and will only get better with time. you can even throw derozan in on that list.

    when some of these guys hit their prime we could have a scary team.

    Quote Originally Posted by deaner View Post
    How can we be so sure that MLSE has enabled BC to do what he needs to do. I think you are uninformed if you think this is all on BCs shoulders. MLSE must apply pressure if they are not getting what they want out of BCs leadership, but my gut tells me they have severely limited him
    thats a part of it too. How do we know he has the green light to make certain moves or not ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freakazoid View Post
    Meh if MLSE isn't limiting him, he'll be fired. If MLSE is limiting him, we should see better signings in the future.

    But I don't get how a signing like Fields is a result of MLSE.
    the fields signing had more to do with lin then it did with fields himself imo. funny thing is id rather have fields on his crappy contract then i would lin on his even bigger and crappier contract.

    fields in year 1 makes 5 million. year 2 he makes 5.2 million. the last year of his deal he makes 8.5 million which is what most have a problem with. but again that was strategic too because in the last year of his deal he will be an 8.5 million expiring contract..tradable asset or cap releif.

    if you think about it fields is not making much more then kleiza, around the mid level until the final year of his contract..
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 11-26-2012 at 03:52 PM.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Couldn't care less. This is the NBA. It is ultra competitive and the season will not be judged on a few missed opportunities. If there is growth over the course of the season, or the team takes an upward turn we will all relax, straighten our underwear, and say "this team is ****ing awesome". If not, BC will likely get axed at the end of the season.

    But for god's sake can we stop over-reacting to every loss and pay attention to the improvements/lack of improvements with a bit more ice water in our veins?
    I still think a lot of your patience comes from being a Canucks fan. You know what winning feels like lol.
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  6. #96
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    i had intended to build a giant spreadsheet of every player that has played for EVERY team in the period of time since BC has been our GM, the goal of which was to show what i thought would amount to pretty solid evidence that the man had no plan. i figured when people could see for themselves the ridiculous number of players that have passed through here compared to other teams it would open a few eyes.

    sadly, it's taken way longer than expected. 2 and a half hours later and i've still only made it through 25 teams. i'll present my findings anyways.

    Lakers - 42
    Jazz - 46
    Pistons - 47
    Sixers - 52
    Magic - 53
    Pacers - 54
    Hawks - 56
    Bulls - 57
    Nuggets - 57
    Heat - 62
    Thunder - 63
    Blazers - 64 multiple GM's
    Cavaliers - 65
    Celtics - 66
    Mavericks - 67
    Grizzlies - 68
    Bucks - 68
    Rockets - 69
    Hornets - 69
    Bobcats - 69 - multiple GM's
    Wolves - 70 - multiple GM's
    Raptors - 71
    Warriors - 79 - multiple GM's
    Clippers - 80 - multiple GM's
    Nets - 81 - multiple GM's

    i still think it makes a pretty good case for why Colangelo should be removed. while there are 3 teams - so far, above our total, they've all had at least one GM change during that time period. it's fair to assume that the new GM probably wanted to change quite a few players off the roster he inherited.

    so where is the vision?
    Last edited by Jamiecballer; 11-26-2012 at 04:54 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    what is he suppose to predict exactly though ? was he supose to know that andrea was gonna come out of the gate playing like crap after showing flashes of being really good last season
    He has been able to evaluate Andrea for the last six years. I don't think it's a very good excuse that he can't help but be fooled by the 13 exceptional games he had last year. Are you forgetting how Andrea played the following 10-15 games after his injury?


    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    at the end of the day, i think this team has young talent that needs to mature. thats all. our team is much better off today then when brian first came in.
    That's not saying much as we were a terrible team before. Plus, lets not forget that BC had a pretty sweet situation coming in with Bosh and a number 1 pick and lots of cap space. Pretty much an ideal situation for a GM to come in and show his vision.



    did you like the team we had prior to B.C being here i sure as hell didnt. i think our team is in much better position to succeed in the future then what it was prior to brian coming here.

    i remember V.C being shipped out for eric and aron williams, oh and also we had to pay alonzo like 10 mill to buy him out of his contract because he refused to play here.

    if anything you guys should be hopeing and praying that brian stays and someone like babcock doesnt replace him.
    It's not exactly heart warming to know that BC is better than Babcock lol But, to be honest i would probably prefer to have a GM like Grunwald

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by aman_13 View Post
    I still think a lot of your patience comes from being a Canucks fan. You know what winning feels like lol.
    Ha, do we?? lol.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    do you think Casey, who talks constantly about being accountable is choosing to ignore Bargnani's effort level for his own reasons or do you think he has little choice? is this why Colangelo likes to always hire new coaches instead of established ones?

    I have had conversations with industry people that have had arguments with Bryan about what he's doing in Toronto. Same person said that mgmt has been in Casey's ear about pt.
    Raptors Franchise Checklist:
    Rebuild with young players [ ]
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    Host NBA All-Star Weekend [ ]
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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    i had intended to build a giant spreadsheet of every player that has played for EVERY team in the period of time since BC has been our GM, the goal of which was to show what i thought would amount to pretty solid evidence that the man had no plan. i figured when people could see for themselves the ridiculous number of players that have passed through here compared to other teams it would open a few eyes.

    sadly, it's taken way longer than expected. 2 and a half hours later and i've still only made it through 25 teams. i'll present my findings anyways.

    Lakers - 42
    Jazz - 46
    Pistons - 47
    Sixers - 52
    Magic - 53
    Pacers - 54
    Hawks - 56
    Bulls - 57
    Nuggets - 57
    Heat - 62
    Thunder - 63
    Blazers - 64 multiple GM's
    Cavaliers - 65
    Celtics - 66
    Mavericks - 67
    Grizzlies - 68
    Bucks - 68
    Rockets - 69
    Hornets - 69
    Bobcats - 69 - multiple GM's
    Wolves - 70 - multiple GM's
    Raptors - 71
    Warriors - 79 - multiple GM's
    Clippers - 80 - multiple GM's
    Nets - 81 - multiple GM's

    i still think it makes a pretty good case for why Colangelo should be removed. while there are 3 teams - so far, above our total, they've all had at least one GM change during that time period. it's fair to assume that the new GM probably wanted to change quite a few players off the roster he inherited.

    so where is the vision?
    1st it was the Euro vision and how the game is changing to all offense and no defense. The Celtics came along and pretty much proved that false. After that it was him trying to replicate that with JO and that failed. The problem was he didnt wait long enough to gather solid assets. Instead he kept giving what little assets he had for the future away for shorter term gains to try and stay with the pact. All that accomplished was getting raped in trades by overpaying or getting guys with question marks surrounding them.

    Guy needs to go. I hope they struggle just so there is no chance he comes back.
    Last edited by The Wise 1; 11-26-2012 at 05:09 PM.

  11. #101
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    I say keep him long term. He's able to build solid young base. But when he's pressured to do something big because he's on the last year of his deal (which have been like 2 year deals), we messes up and the organization takes 2 steps back. Give him 4 years.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenzo400 View Post
    He has been able to evaluate Andrea for the last six years. I don't think it's a very good excuse that he can't help but be fooled by the 13 exceptional games he had last year. Are you forgetting how Andrea played the following 10-15 games after his injury?

    That's not saying much as we were a terrible team before. Plus, lets not forget that BC had a pretty sweet situation coming in with Bosh and a number 1 pick and lots of cap space. Pretty much an ideal situation for a GM to come in and show his vision.


    It's not exactly heart warming to know that BC is better than Babcock lol But, to be honest i would probably prefer to have a GM like Grunwald
    lets talk about when B.C first came in and building around bosh.

    1.he was instructed to build a team around bosh. I dont need to point out the problem with this because we all now know bosh is not a number one option.

    2. yes he had the number one pick. in a draft where

    -lamarcus aldridge drafted 2nd over all was projected to go first. a player very similar to bosh.
    - rondo went 21st over all and no one imagined him being this good.
    - brandon roy was reported to have knee problems and went 6th over all
    - gay went 8th over all

    coming away with bargs was honestly not that bad considering that no one knew rondo and gay were going to be this good and the fact that lamarcus aldridge's potential was considered to be bosh versian 2.0 at the time and brandon roy is thinking about retiring for the 2nd time now.

    3. the following are what i would consider bad picks in that draft

    - adam morrison selected 3rd
    - tyrus thomas selected 4th
    - sheldon williams selected 5th
    - randy foy selected 7th
    - patrick obryant 9th
    - saer sene 10th

    the draft itself wasnt very deep and we havent had a top 3 pick ever since. with the picks that we have had i think B.C has done a good job drafting.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 11-26-2012 at 05:11 PM.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise 1 View Post
    1st it was the Euro vision and how the game is changing to all offense and no defense. The Celtics came along and pretty much proved that false. After that it was him trying to replicate that with JO and that failed. The problem was he didnt wait long enough to gather solid assets. Instead he kept giving what little assets he had for the future away for shorter term gains to try and stay with the pact. All that accomplished was getting raped in trades by overpaying or getting guys with question marks surrounding them.

    Guy needs to go. I hope they struggle just so there is no chance he comes back.
    first of all. that "euro vision" he had was im guessing the year we actually won a division title ?

    i hate when ppl talk about this because we had like 3-4 euro players and the rest were all pretty much american born...

    -calderon was here before B.C.
    -garbajosa was a really good player and a fan favourite before he had that freak injury
    - rasho was a good and productive C for us the first time around
    anthony parker is an american born player
    kris humphries is an emerican born player
    bosh american born player
    ford american born player
    morris peterson american born
    fred jones american born
    juan dixon american born
    joey graham american born
    luke jackson american born
    darrick martin american born
    p.j tucker american born
    pape sow african born



    now in regards to the bolded statement how much of that was to please bosh and get him to stay ? a player that was drafted before B.C came in and a player that the owners wanted to keep and build around.

    t.j ford
    jarret jack
    JO
    marion
    hedo

    all players taken on in order please chris bosh and try to help him get out of the first round
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 11-26-2012 at 05:41 PM.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    lets talk about when B.C first came in and building around bosh.

    1.he was instructed to build a team around bosh. I dont need to point out the problem with this because we all now know bosh is not a number one option.
    All I ever heard was that he was given the keys and everyone was staying out of his way. Right from the start thats what was always reported. It somehow got to this ^^^ even though BC was on record saying when he first got here that he wouldnt of come here if he didnt have complete control.

    I see the samething happening with Ross. In a couple years people will be making the same excuse for BC regarding Ross. Saying that he was the consensus pick at the time. back around draft time, the immediate reaction was that it was a stretch (and it is/was) and slowly but surely it became he was the right pick.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    how much of that was to please bosh and get him to stay ? a player that was drafted before B.C came in and a player that the owners wanted to keep and build around.

    t.j ford
    jarret jack
    JO
    marion
    hedo
    I address it in the other post. But I dont buy it was MLSE at all. What does Bosh being there before him have to do with anything? At the end of the day, BC was there offering him max money before he left for Miami.

    Also, at the end of day. Its his choice.

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