Bryan Colangelo

[achha100]

Couldn't care less. This is the NBA. It is ultra competitive and the season will not be judged on a few missed opportunities. If there is growth over the course of the season, or the team takes an upward turn we will all relax, straighten our underwear, and say "this team is ****ing awesome". If not, BC will likely get axed at the end of the season.

But for god's sake can we stop over-reacting to every loss and pay attention to the improvements/lack of improvements with a bit more ice water in our veins?

This is one of the few resoundingly sensible posts (and posters) I see on this site. That said, I do think BC and co. shot themselves in the foot (feet?) for banging their doldrums about going to the playoffs and about how this team reminded him of the team that won the Atlantic.

[diu9leilomo]

Couldn't care less. This is the NBA. It is ultra competitive and the season will not be judged on a few missed opportunities. If there is growth over the course of the season, or the team takes an upward turn we will all relax, straighten our underwear, and say "this team is ****ing awesome". If not, BC will likely get axed at the end of the season.

But for god's sake can we stop over-reacting to every loss and pay attention to the improvements/lack of improvements with a bit more ice water in our veins?

A loss is a loss, we can't be a 3-11 with the talent we have. I understand we had a tough November, but momentum is HUGE, we just cant let games slip away like that especially with casey's rotation in crunch time. I'll give them 10 more games before I make further judgement. Looking at the schedule right now I'll be happy if we can pull 2-3 wins out of the 10 game stretch.

[diu9leilomo]

This is one of the few resoundingly sensible posts (and posters) I see on this site. That said, I do think BC and co. shot themselves in the foot (feet?) for banging their doldrums about going to the playoffs and about how this team reminded him of the team that won the Atlantic.

C'mon man, Atlantic division was horrible that year.

[ink]

A loss is a loss, we can't be a 3-11 with the talent we have. I understand we had a tough November, but momentum is HUGE, we just cant let games slip away like that especially with casey's rotation in crunch time. I'll give them 10 more games before I make further judgement. Looking at the schedule right now I'll be happy if we can pull 2-3 wins out of the 10 game stretch.

Is it? I don't agree.

[C_Mund]

Yeah, as long as we compete for a playoff spot this year, there's positives. if we MAKE the playoffs (looking more and more grim with every close loss....) then our improvement speaks for itself. If we're close, we give up a higher pick for Lowry. Also, there's a ton of season left for both internal and external improvement.

The only way this season is a complete bust is if we end up in that 5-10 range and have to give up a pretty decent pick. Otherwise if we keep games close we can only get better.

[psrs1]

This season will decide. If the team comes together he stays, if not he'll be gone. I don't think they expect much of the team, I certainly don't. But if things don't work out he will have had long enough.

That said, I know we're not winning games but the reaction in here is lame. We just took the Spurs to multiple OT. We don't have a big game finisher. Do the math.

We're EXACTLY where young teams usually are: struggling to learn how to win close games.

We are NOT getting blown out, we have stretches of very good bball. We have shorter stretches of bad ball.

I just don't see why people get their underwear in a knot over this stuff.

At some point Casey really needs to figure out which players are best eqipped to produce when it counts most and which players have some utility to each game but are not going to be the ones who can develop the intangibles required to close out games. For example I would put AB and JC into the latter category and KL and JV in the former category. There is a huge mental component to this and some players do not possess the mental fortitude required to be winners. Though having some positives is good at the end of the day whether you lose by 1 or 21 it is still a loss, so I disagree with you somewhat in that there comes a point where good or tough losses are still losses ---the most important category at the end of the day is wins and losses. So yes there is some cause for concern. Additionally, when your losses continue to mount it can lead to players believing that no matter what they do in future games they will continue to lose and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[achha100]

C'mon man, Atlantic division was horrible that year.

Exactly my point. Why compare a young, promising team in a stacked division to one that exceeded expectations in a weak division? Setting yourself up for failure. Of course hindsight is 20/20... but say management had gone into the year using "development" as the aim rather than "playoffs". It's possible alot more people would have been raving about Jonas' promise so far rather than the fact that we're 3-11.

Personally I'm all in on Jonas and am pretty relaxed about our future as a franchise. The rest of the pieces should fall into place in time and with half sensible management.

All hail big V.

[ink]

At some point Casey really needs to figure out which players are best eqipped to produce when it counts most and which players have some utility to each game but are not going to be the ones who can develop the intangibles required to close out games. For example I would put AB and JC into the latter category and KL and JV in the former category. There is a huge mental component to this and some players do not possess the mental fortitude required to be winners. Though having some positives is good at the end of the day whether you lose by 1 or 21 it is still a loss, so I disagree with you somewhat in that there comes a point where good or tough losses are still losses ---the most important category at the end of the day is wins and losses. So yes there is some cause for concern. Additionally, when your losses continue to mount it can lead to players believing that no matter what they do in future games they will continue to lose and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

There's always a downside to losing, sure, but it's not as bad as you guys make it out to be every game. It's part of development. People will question how the development is actually going of course, but like I said, ownership will look at the big picture, not at every loss. You have to let the players fail so they can learn. I also don't believe it's as black and white as that with our players. Some aren't "winners" and others "losers". Those are just arbitrary concepts. Ultimately it comes down to usage again. If Bargs is used as a jump shooter in clutch situations the failure rate is OBVIOUSLY going to be higher than if your clutch player is an effective slasher or a big with a great post game. But exactly WHO are those players and do we know we have them yet?

Exactly my point. Why compare a young, promising team in a stacked division to one that exceeded expectations in a weak division? Setting yourself up for failure.

Definitely agree, and this is where BC needed to tame his marketing instincts and not put undue pressure on the team. The division is completely different this year, and the Raptors will struggle to make the sudden breakthrough this year without the veterans (Garbo, Parker, Rasho) that helped the Raptors grow up fast that year.

[diu9leilomo]

Is it? I don't agree.

Yes, we should be a playoff team this year. I'm tired of this learning and rebuilding bs. I'm desperate for the raps to have a good season.

[ink]

Yes, we should be a playoff team this year. I'm tired of this learning and rebuilding bs. I'm desperate for the raps to have a good season.

I really don't care about the playoffs. Doesn't mean a thing to me. I would be happy with a longer term rebuild.

Why care about the playoffs? How far do you realistically think they would get?

I'm thinking the 7-8 seed most often gets swept so what's the rush?

[Jamiecballer]

i'll be honest, i think there has been a lot of growth internally this season from our players. so ask yourself why we might be 3-11. if Bargnani doesn't play well that's one thing. there are players who don't produce on every team. but to play him 35 mins a night as though it's his birthright even though he is playing poorly is just wrong. it's not fair to the rest of the guys who are playing pretty well and busting their ***.

[Nomz]

Agree with Ink completely, but if Coach Tibs can sit Boozer (who makes 5-6 mil more than bargs?) why can't casey take a stand and bench Bargs, specially when he is ice cold? Casey can be an elite coach, but he has to learn to be tough on his players and not worry about their "feelings".

[ink]

i'll be honest, i think there has been a lot of growth internally this season from our players. so ask yourself why we might be 3-11. if Bargnani doesn't play well that's one thing. there are players who don't produce on every team. but to play him 35 mins a night as though it's his birthright even though he is playing poorly is just wrong. it's not fair to the rest of the guys who are playing pretty well and busting their ***.

IMO they are going to push him as hard as they can. You can take the "birthright" view or you can also look at it as they want to push the hell out of him, and see once and for all if he can take the next step. Again, the failure is in usage. Why go to a low percentage shooter in clutch situations? Maybe because the higher percentage offensive players aren't there yet or aren't good enough. It's not just a simple "entitlement" issue.

[Nomz]

If you haven't pushed him to the limit in 7 years, I am not sure if you'll ever get there. BC and Casey need to push him to the bench and let him be our 6th man. JV can produce under the basket, we have enough scoring on our wings and plenty of defense in our starting 5 without bargs. On a playoff team, bargs is a bench player, and potentially a very good one too. Get in...take a few shots...and sit down.

[Jamiecballer]

IMO they are going to push him as hard as they can. You can take the "birthright" view or you can also look at it as they want to push the hell out of him, and see once and for all if he can take the next step. Again, the failure is in usage. Why go to a low percentage shooter in clutch situations? Maybe because the higher percentage offensive players aren't there yet or aren't good enough. It's not just a simple "entitlement" issue.

in your opinion what are they doing that would indicate that they are pushing him.