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View Poll Results: Is Bryan Colangelo good for this team long term

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  • Keep Colangelo long term

    30 47.62%
  • He sucks he needs to go

    33 52.38%
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Thread: Bryan Colangelo

  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    I detect sarcasm here. Hmm. Naw couldn't be.

    As others have said, his core has been kept in tact at various times. The highest turnover rate is from the bench players, the guys who were good first rounders that didn't pan out with the clubs that drafted them. Of course he couldn't evaluate them until his coaching staff worked with them in practice and game situations. That's the nature of trying to find gems like Raja Bell for instance ...



    I know you think you proved something with the stat, but I don't really think it's that significant a number over 7 years with an aggressive GM with a firm idea of what he wants. Many here don't like his vision, but it is a very definite one. It may not work, but it's by no means wishy washy. He is aggressively seeking out the kind of talent he thinks his team needs. He likes a mix of team-oriented players with diverse/flexible skills and athletic players who will attack. His biggest change came when he finally acknowledged that his team needed a defensive leader in Casey, who had roster requirements of his own.

    It isn't always black or white.
    so you are fairly confident then that if i posted that list of 71 players that there would be a very clear trend to the type of player. i can safely assume this correct?

    ps. you yourself have said on many occasions in seasons past that Colangelo has a strong tendency toward "half-players" (your term in fact). is this not true?
    Last edited by Jamiecballer; 11-26-2012 at 10:49 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by achha100 View Post
    A core of piss poor players that did absolutely nothing the year before but suck enough to get Val in the draft. Hardly anybody on last years team can look on that year as an "improvement". Demar regressed in some ways. Ed davis never really improved on his rookie year. Amir was in the doghouse for a while. Andrea injured. Plus if what you're saying is true (re: those moves being made later in the season), doesn't that point towards management trying harder to tank as the season went on? Hell I'm still amazed we won as many games as we did.
    People really overstate the 'piss poor players' of last year. That core of players is the same that was here the year before that had time to grow together. Yet this year that same core of players is considered extremely deep.

    The players that were the core last season had plenty of previous time to grow together and though they may not have increased their individual numbers increased their team chemistry which was bound to result in more wins.

    Management did try hard to tank at the end of the season, problem is that if management wants to tank a season you take care of that before the season or very early. Waiting until the latter half of the season is already too late.

    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Credit or blame Casey for the wins that moved us down the draft ladder. Whichever one prefers.

    I agree. I don't think Colangelo could have found worse pieces to complement the "core" last year than he did.
    The top 9 players in the rotation were all on the team the previous year. So the "worse players" were end of the bench and had virtually no effect on the team. Changing the end of the bench isn't a tanking move in my opinion.

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    I know you think you proved something with the stat, but I don't really think it's that significant a number over 7 years with an aggressive GM with a firm idea of what he wants. Many here don't like his vision, but it is a very definite one. It may not work, but it's by no means wishy washy. He is aggressively seeking out the kind of talent he thinks his team needs. He likes a mix of team-oriented players with diverse/flexible skills and athletic players who will attack. His biggest change came when he finally acknowledged that his team needed a defensive leader in Casey, who had roster requirements of his own.

    It isn't always black or white.
    I agree with the team-oriented players and the athletic players part but the diverse/flexible skill set I don't agree with. In general the players he brings in seem to be more one-dimensional and intended to play off of a ball dominant pg. Multi-positional players I could see, he likes guys who can play at multiple positions but their skill set isn't multi anything.

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bramaca View Post
    I agree with the team-oriented players and the athletic players part but the diverse/flexible skill set I don't agree with. In general the players he brings in seem to be more one-dimensional and intended to play off of a ball dominant pg. Multi-positional players I could see, he likes guys who can play at multiple positions but their skill set isn't multi anything.
    totally agree
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    so you are fairly confident then that if i posted that list of 71 players that there would be a very clear trend to the type of player. i can safely assume this correct?
    71 players is a high amount but many of the 29 brought in since Bosh left have been end of bench players. The strange thing to me is that there has been more stability in the core/rotation players during the 'rebuild' then when they were going for the playoffs. To me it should be completely the other way around, the core should be torn down during a rebuild.

  6. #171
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    http://www.thepeterboroughexaminer.c...e-waiting-game

    ^ Above was an old article from Steve Simmons but there were interesting quotes there from BC before the season started.

    He was very careful in his words but sounded optimistic that this team will make the playoffs. Haha, he never expected this at all, a 3-11 record and losing fast.

    I think the man for the most part is so unlucky and I think that will not change.

    I kept on saying that he still has one more hand to play so I am still hoping that this lame duck Executive can right the ship.

    Rogers may not that as patient as MLSE so we can just wait and see.

    As of today, the whole body of work is a failure with a team leaking on different areas.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bramaca View Post
    I agree with the team-oriented players and the athletic players part but the diverse/flexible skill set I don't agree with. In general the players he brings in seem to be more one-dimensional and intended to play off of a ball dominant pg. Multi-positional players I could see, he likes guys who can play at multiple positions but their skill set isn't multi anything.
    Which is why our motion offense stinks.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freakazoid View Post
    Which is why our motion offense stinks.
    For the most part.

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bramaca View Post
    71 players is a high amount but many of the 29 brought in since Bosh left have been end of bench players. The strange thing to me is that there has been more stability in the core/rotation players during the 'rebuild' then when they were going for the playoffs. To me it should be completely the other way around, the core should be torn down during a rebuild.
    I'm not surprised at all that he was working and reworking the lineup during those first two years. I think he thought he was heading upwards after Year 1, then the wheels started to wobble and there was a need for constant repair. There was no way he could have stuck with the rosters he had at the end of each year while he was trying to build around Bosh.

    But I take your point about the core pieces. He has struggled to find a franchise player but the "core" has been better than most of the support players he had while Bosh was here. They don't have the value to trade yet, so it's not surprising he has just incubated them here for the time being.
    Last edited by ink; 11-27-2012 at 12:02 AM.

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bramaca View Post
    I agree with the team-oriented players and the athletic players part but the diverse/flexible skill set I don't agree with. In general the players he brings in seem to be more one-dimensional and intended to play off of a ball dominant pg. Multi-positional players I could see, he likes guys who can play at multiple positions but their skill set isn't multi anything.
    What I was getting at was that he talked about it ad nauseum. And by diverse/flexible skill sets I was talking about multi-positional players. Players like Hedo absolutely have some flexibility in their skills with a range from facilitator to post up player. Also what he attempted and failed at with Bargnani. Remember I wasn't talking about what he achieved, just what he tried and what he talked about.

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bramaca View Post
    The top 9 players in the rotation were all on the team the previous year. So the "worse players" were end of the bench and had virtually no effect on the team. Changing the end of the bench isn't a tanking move in my opinion.
    He also attempted nothing to upgrade at any position. That was a first and an indication to all of us that he wasn't going to try to win last season. Maybe you wanted him to dump several of the top 8 players but that wasn't going to happen.

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    But I take your point about the core pieces. He has struggled to find a franchise player but the "core" has been better than most of the support players he had while Bosh was here. They don't have the value to trade yet, so it's not surprising he has just incubated them here for the time being.
    Support players trade value is higher when they are playing a more significant role. You incubate them while the overall team gets stronger and their value just drops.

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    What I was getting at was that he talked about it ad nauseum. And by diverse/flexible skill sets I was talking about multi-positional players. Players like Hedo absolutely have some flexibility in their skills with a range from facilitator to post up player. Also what he attempted and failed at with Bargnani. Remember I wasn't talking about what he achieved, just what he tried and what he talked about.
    Players like Hedo have been the exception rather then the rule. And any player that has had a more well rounded skill set seems to be the forst to go.

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    He also attempted nothing to upgrade at any position. That was a first and an indication to all of us that he wasn't going to try to win last season. Maybe you wanted him to dump several of the top 8 players but that wasn't going to happen.
    Why not? If they weren't trying to win last year and the players on the team aren't the franchise players there is no reason not to.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bramaca View Post
    Support players trade value is higher when they are playing a more significant role. You incubate them while the overall team gets stronger and their value just drops.
    Or not. Davis and DeRozan both seem to be appreciating in value this year. And I'm not sure where that particular rule of thumb comes from. A proven support player has value. A struggling rookie/sophomore has little.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bramaca View Post
    Players like Hedo have been the exception rather then the rule. And any player that has had a more well rounded skill set seems to be the forst to go.
    Again, my point was what he was seeking, what he talked about. Anyway it's a moot point because he's mainly dropped that since Casey arrived and a more traditional approach has started to take hold here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bramaca View Post
    Why not? If they weren't trying to win last year and the players on the team aren't the franchise players there is no reason not to.
    Largely because at that point he'd be randomly giving away players for nothing.

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