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View Poll Results: Is Bryan Colangelo good for this team long term

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  • Keep Colangelo long term

    30 47.62%
  • He sucks he needs to go

    33 52.38%
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Thread: Bryan Colangelo

  1. #151
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    it shows a GM who doesn't really know what he's looking for and is trying desperately to figure it out
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    it shows a GM who doesn't really know what he's looking for and is trying desperately to figure it out
    Doubtful. He has really only changed direction once and that was after Bosh left. He brought in a shitload of players to complement Bosh, then brought in another load when he started a (too brief) rebuild. I don't think the stat is worth its weight in 2nd round draft picks.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Doubtful. He has really only changed direction once and that was after Bosh left. He brought in a shitload of players to complement Bosh, then brought in another load when he started a (too brief) rebuild. I don't think the stat is worth its weight in 2nd round draft picks.
    so is he just a terrible judge of talent or is he just not giving the talent he acquires enough time to mesh? or is he one of these people who can't imagine what the shirt will look like on him, he has to buy it first only to return it later.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Doubtful. He has really only changed direction once and that was after Bosh left. He brought in a shitload of players to complement Bosh, then brought in another load when he started a (too brief) rebuild. I don't think the stat is worth its weight in 2nd round draft picks.
    i'm pretty sure you can evaluate players without actually putting them on your team first.

    the only reason for turning over at such a prodigious rate is impatience or a lack of a clear plan. so i'm pretty sure the stat made my point.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by psrs1 View Post
    Trying and actually doing this it are not the same thing.
    I agree.... doesn't change the fact that I like that he does that while a lot of other GMs aren't willing to admit their mistakes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    hmm... not exactly what i had in mind lol

    bob how much can you really expect a team to develop when you have such an extraordinarily high turnover rate?
    That is a good point but I think the key is that he has tried to keep the core together overall. It is the end of the bench and such that have had a high rate of turnover. Bargs and Jose have been here since the beginning, Amir and Demar have been here for quite awhile. When he added players like Kapono, Hedo and JO he was quick to admit that they were mistakes and moved them. Yes, he could have given them more time but I don't think the fans would approve, they revolt pretty quickly. Take this season as an example, we already have people asking for big trades and asking for Casey to be fired. There is very little patience.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Very good post. Teams with established stars or older veterans are not going to turn over as fast. The stat of 71 players since he began here is not really signifying what it was intended to. It shows a GM working his *** off to improve the team with whatever he can find. There's some slim pickin's on the periphery of the NBA, which is exactly where we are. Oh wait, we should have picked up Lebron to go with Bosh and then we wouldn't need to turnover the roster so much.
    i understand the instinct that led him to assume that. but as i've pointed out it's over 7 years. just about every team in the nba has been young, old and everything in between at some point in a sample size that big. even us. so in the case i think you are quite wrong and your sarcasm is not appreciated.
    Last edited by Jamiecballer; 11-26-2012 at 10:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_at_york View Post
    I agree.... doesn't change the fact that I like that he does that while a lot of other GMs aren't willing to admit their mistakes.


    That is a good point but I think the key is that he has tried to keep the core together overall. It is the end of the bench and such that have had a high rate of turnover. Bargs and Jose have been here since the beginning, Amir and Demar have been here for quite awhile. When he added players like Kapono, Hedo and JO he was quick to admit that they were mistakes and moved them. Yes, he could have given them more time but I don't think the fans would approve, they revolt pretty quickly. Take this season as an example, we already have people asking for big trades and asking for Casey to be fired. There is very little patience.
    that's fair.

    even when we don't agree i appreciate the fact that you actually respond to what's being said and not in a condescending way!

    i don't think casey should be fired, do you?
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    i think your points are good but i don't think the order of the teams on the list is supporting your point. plus keep in mind this list is compiled over 7 years. so there is no such thing as a young team really.
    Sure there is. A team can stay young via draft, and being in a "rebuild" stage. Very seldom do you see a old team in a rebuild phase. And very seldom do you see a young team not in a rebuild team. Now there are exceptions such as OKC. I see a pattern in that list of the bottom teams being young, and trying to build there team with youth. And most of those teams struggle doing that, until they find that "diamond on the rough" You see that in all sports. The New York Islanders are a prime example in hockey. They have been struggling for ever, with trying to dress a young team. You can see that with our raptors. We seem to have some talent (young talent) or skilled players that haven't proved themselves yet, for numerous reasons. What I'm trying to say is that when a franchise is in "rebuild" (as we are in) the job of a GM is a lot harder, and those mistakes you see with BC are very common with other GM's in the same situation, and that goes for all sports. So I dare to say, if we traded GM's with Lakers GM, I would bet you would see similar results.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    so is he just a terrible judge of talent or is he just not giving the talent he acquires enough time to mesh? or is he one of these people who can't imagine what the shirt will look like on him, he has to buy it first only to return it later.
    Think about the flyers he's taken on a boatload of first rounders who didn't work out with the team that drafted them. He gives a lot of bench seats to those players, panning for gold. It's not a bad use of bench spots and occasionally the player (Dixon, Delfino, Belinelli, Amir, JJ, Bayless) ends up being serviceable for a time. I'm not too worried about the numbers he racks up there at all. There was also a constant turnover of end of the bench players, essentially practice bodies. I like the fact that he was aggressively digging for talent, coming up with a gem now and again.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Think about the flyers he's taken on a boatload of first rounders who didn't work out with the team that drafted them. He gives a lot of bench seats to those players, panning for gold. It's not a bad use of bench spots and occasionally the player (Dixon, Delfino, Belinelli, Amir, JJ, Bayless) ends up being serviceable for a time. I'm not too worried about the numbers he racks up there at all. There was also a constant turnover of end of the bench players, essentially practice bodies. I like the fact that he was aggressively digging for talent, coming up with a gem now and again.
    i get what you are saying but if you are taking flyers on guys you would think he would give them more time. because these guys are not just end of the bench guys. and teams need time to gel. you don't end up with 71 players in 7 years by changing over the guys in suits every year.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian hemi View Post
    Sure there is. A team can stay young via draft, and being in a "rebuild" stage. Very seldom do you see a old team in a rebuild phase. And very seldom do you see a young team not in a rebuild team. Now there are exceptions such as OKC. I see a pattern in that list of the bottom teams being young, and trying to build there team with youth. And most of those teams struggle doing that, until they find that "diamond on the rough" You see that in all sports. The New York Islanders are a prime example in hockey. They have been struggling for ever, with trying to dress a young team. You can see that with our raptors. We seem to have some talent (young talent) or skilled players that haven't proved themselves yet, for numerous reasons. What I'm trying to say is that when a franchise is in "rebuild" (as we are in) the job of a GM is a lot harder, and those mistakes you see with BC are very common with other GM's in the same situation, and that goes for all sports. So I dare to say, if we traded GM's with Lakers GM, I would bet you would see similar results.
    over the course of 7 years there are very few teams that would be young throughout. same with old. i respect what you are saying, and there is some truth there. i guess i know what i'll be doing tomorrow when i should be working

    i have my suspicion that the teams at the bottom of that list are more often bad but not necessarily the youngest.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    i understand the instinct that led him to assume that. but as i've pointed out it's over 7 years. just about every team in the nba has been young, old and everything in between at some point in a sample size that big. even us. so in the case i think you are quite wrong and your sarcasm is not appreciated.
    More irony than sarcasm and just joking. Don't misread my intention. Note the smile on the bottom half of the icon. It was meant with a laugh because it's funny to think that we could have had a tight roster for an extended period of time without ever picking up a great player through free agency, or until this year, in the draft. It's not surprising. Teams with studs you can build around don't change over as much.

    I don't see where you've proven anyone wrong. Yes, it's been 7 years. On a roster of 15 players with at least 7-8 disposable bench players, that's not a surprising number.

    I'm not saying he's done a great job building the team. But the talent is deeper than when he got it by a long shot. All things considered I'm just not that agitated about it.

    tbh other than a few bad trades and hanging onto Bosh too long, Casey fighting for wins in a tank season was about the worst thing I've seen on his watch. I certainly don't think 71 players in 7 seasons shows a lack of direction, as you're suggesting. I think it shows an incredible struggle to find talent.
    Last edited by ink; 11-26-2012 at 10:15 PM.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    i'm pretty sure you can evaluate players without actually putting them on your team first.

    the only reason for turning over at such a prodigious rate is impatience or a lack of a clear plan. so i'm pretty sure the stat made my point.
    a good point too.

  14. #164
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    Can't remember who posted it, but I do agree that having Ross not playing much is a weird thing. It seemed that they drafted him more on the "need" rather than "best available", so why have him behind guys like Mcquire etc.? I'm a big fan of Coach Casey, but I have questioned his motivation of not playing Ross much. Now one can argue that his play hasn't deserved it, and that he is a rookie, and no one expects much from a rookie in there 1st season. But if they are in "rebuild" why not play him more, and see what he has in him?? I have also heard they are not worried about winning games, and just want to improve and get better. Well that seems to me, to be a perfect opportunity to play your high skilled draft pick, instead of your journey bench player. Not sure what point I'm trying to make here, but I guess what I'm trying to say is give Ross more of a chance just like JV is having.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    i'm pretty sure you can evaluate players without actually putting them on your team first.
    I detect sarcasm here. Hmm. Naw couldn't be.

    As others have said, his core has been kept in tact at various times. The highest turnover rate is from the bench players, the guys who were good first rounders that didn't pan out with the clubs that drafted them. Of course he couldn't evaluate them until his coaching staff worked with them in practice and game situations. That's the nature of trying to find gems like Raja Bell for instance ...

    the only reason for turning over at such a prodigious rate is impatience or a lack of a clear plan. so i'm pretty sure the stat made my point.
    I know you think you proved something with the stat, but I don't really think it's that significant a number over 7 years with an aggressive GM with a firm idea of what he wants. Many here don't like his vision, but it is a very definite one. It may not work, but it's by no means wishy washy. He is aggressively seeking out the kind of talent he thinks his team needs. He likes a mix of team-oriented players with diverse/flexible skills and athletic players who will attack. His biggest change came when he finally acknowledged that his team needed a defensive leader in Casey, who had roster requirements of his own.

    It isn't always black or white.

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