What Arguments are there AGAINST Gay Marriage?

[Randy West]

The only reason I can see is religion, it's holding us all back when it is involved in politics.

[flips333]

A true test for anyone who wants to work on sharpening their debating skills- pick a social issue you feel strongly about, and take the argument opposing your own, and see how successfully you can argue it.

I think if I were to debate this issue from the position opposite my own (anti- gay marriage), I would make an argument for the institution that is marriage in the religious context. Arguing instead that "marriage" be defined as being between a man and a woman, as defined by church doctrine, and has been for centuries. I would argue that the definition of marriage today has been bastardized by secular groups attempting to delegitimize the term. I would then argue that while gay couples may be granted the right by indiviidual states to join in a civil union, marriages are essentiall civil unions observed by the church. So the two would be legally identical in every respect with the exception of the term, and observance by the church. This might avoid constitutional issues reating disparity between the two terms.

I feel like I need a shower after proposing this as an argument, but if I were to have to make that argument, this would be the tact I would take. However, I still see an issue with the fourth ammendment.

I think this is why I like to pick on nate and dbroncs. It's not usually taking the opposite side, but it is taking the general liberal talking points or reasoning and challenging it.

[stephkyle7]

also,along the scientific perspective of Homosexual behaviour.
Many other species engage in Homosexual activity.
we are pretty much the only ones that put such a premium on that behaviour defining who we are as people.
Personally, I find it very odd.
I am hetrosexual.I take no pride in that, it is just simply the way I respond to sexual stimulation.
If another mans Junk caused a reaction from me ,then I would act on that reaction.
The fact that it doesnt,is of no great interest to me.It is what it is.
The fact that it does for others is of no huge interest, or surprise either quit frankly.
There are hetros that want to be Crapped on for christs sake,I should be appalled at the idea that some dude gets off on other dudes?
Im willing to bet there are a lot of men engaging in gay behavious simply due to the percieved illicit nature of the behaviour...they just want to be naughty...Im also willing to bet that a lot of people who Identify as "Bi" are really just saying..I dont care how i get off as long as I do.
Biologically there is so little difference in the male and female of mosts species I find it silly to place such a degree of importance on who someone is Fing.

[valade16]

No more than gays choose to be gay.

Why don't you tell us all about when you choose to be straight?

checkmate.

[natepro]

I also want to "Gulp" jump in here to defend longhornfan... What he says is actually an honest statement that is true, not just for him but also for humans. We like to be with our own "kind" for some this is race, or sex orientation or liberals, or you name it. Lord knows I have Gay friends who rarely hang out with straight people. When you have shared knowledge, and a shard culture it makes life and communication easier. there is a level of comfort etc. with these folks. It sounds racist or homophobic when one is in the majority and they say it (and when they say it as bluntly and as insensitive as Longhorn did). But it's true of all of us. Seriously if you are liberal and educated, aren't most of your friends and people you interact with liberal and educated? Even if you are like me and have the urge to hang out with people of different backgrounds and cultures, in order for that to result in anything of a meaningful relationship that other person has to want to hang out with people of different backgrounds and culture... thus we are of the same "kind".

Hanging out with people that are generally like you, and "hating" people that are "weird" because they're gay are just not the same thing. I think there's a difference between not being friends with people, because you run in different circles or have different interests or whatever, and actively hating them for who they are.

But then again, comparing the way I feel about things and the way he does about things might be a pointless exercise to begin with.

[stephkyle7]

we are genetically predispositioned to be prejudicial.
It is a survival instinct.by being able to identify "likeness" babies know who they should be able to trust.
We then either foster,or work to overcome that instinct, but it is always there to some degree IMO.
Just like with addiction, you can stop smoking for twenty years, but that doesnt change the reward response that will take place if you choose to have a smoke..its there now...just waiting..
I understand Longhorns perception...but more importantly, I hope he understands that he is a slave to those shackles hes placed on himself,which is unfortunatley at the heart of many ,many conservative ideologues.

[flips333]

Hanging out with people that are generally like you, and "hating" people that are "weird" because they're gay are just not the same thing. I think there's a difference between not being friends with people, because you run in different circles or have different interests or whatever, and actively hating them for who they are.

But then again, comparing the way I feel about things and the way he does about things might be a pointless exercise to begin with.

I was not referring to the hate comment... to that comment I have only pity and disdain.

But weird. weird just means strange, and maybe a level of hard to understand in it's difference. Take the conspiracy nuts on here.. I would say they are weird and I don't think anyone would bat an eye because it is acceptable... but to say that gay men are weird is not... but it's kind of true from the standpoint of straight culture. weird doesn't even have any valence in my opinion.

[natepro]

I was not referring to the hate comment... to that comment I have only pity and disdain.

But weird. weird just means strange, and maybe a level of hard to understand in it's difference. Take the conspiracy nuts on here.. I would say they are weird and I don't think anyone would bat an eye because it is acceptable... but to say that gay men are weird is not... but it's kind of true from the standpoint of straight culture. weird doesn't even have any valence in my opinion.

Weird on it's own, sure. I'll call my friends weird. But combined with "hate," which he said in nearly the same e-breath, it's a different thing entirely.


It also, as well as "I'll stick with my kind," has nothing to do with whether or not gay marriage should be legal, whether homosexuality is okay, or whether or not it's a choice.

[flips333]

Weird on it's own, sure. I'll call my friends weird. But combined with "hate," which he said in nearly the same e-breath, it's a different thing entirely.


It also, as well as "I'll stick with my kind," has nothing to do with whether or not gay marriage should be legal, whether homosexuality is okay, or whether or not it's a choice.

But of all the things he said this is what interests me the most... because with our liberal values it is hard for us to admit that this is actually a human trait.

[natepro]

But of all the things he said this is what interests me the most... because with our liberal values it is hard for us to admit that this is actually a human trait.

He would probably have to answer this more than you could, but in the context of what he said, what does it even mean? No one is saying everyone should be friends with someone that's gay. No one is saying you should high five every gay person you see. But the way he's presented himself, it makes it sound as if he would be perfectly happy if he could construct a world where he literally never came into contact with anyone that's gay. And that is odd.

But mostly, it just strikes me as a response to something that isn't even being proposed. Like someone went, "Go hang out with your local gays!" and that's his response to it.

[GGGGG-Men]

stop it...do blacks choose to be black? Liberals love to reach.

Ultimate fail here. It's not a choice. That said....

They're weird. I stick with my own kind.

I'm actually glad you say this. If you don't like gay people that's fine. If you think they're weird, fine. People will tear you down for feeling this way right now and tell you why you're wrong and intolerant and personally, I'd line up with them, but really I'm just glad you say it and put it out there. It's the people who feel that way and cover it with that I can't stand. If you're gonna have stereotypes and hate or whatever, just put it out there at least.

[flips333]

He would probably have to answer this more than you could, but in the context of what he said, what does it even mean? No one is saying everyone should be friends with someone that's gay. No one is saying you should give every gay man a little pat on the butt. But the way he's presented himself, it makes it sound as if he would be perfectly happy if he could construct a world where he literally never came into contact with anyone that's gay. And that is odd.

But mostly, it just strikes me as a response to something that isn't even being proposed. Like someone went, "Go hang out with your local gays!" and that's his response to it.

fixed that for you.

I'm not interested in him honestly, I think we all know where he stands. We live in a land of gated communities, where the idea of walling oneself off from others is commonplace. As far as I'm concerned they can go ahead and do that.

I am far more interested in my own limitations when it comes to these things. Understanding how this psychological construct affects my own behavior. And my own inability to connect with those who are different.

[Fly]

I hate gays, but I don't care if they get married. the gov needs to stay out of people's lives and pocket book.

[GGGGG-Men]

At least he's honest.

[Fly]

At least he's honest.

Meh, with where I live, I'm around enough "honest" people who share similar beliefs with him on the issue. It gets tiring after a while.