The Official 2012-2013 New York Yankees Offseason Thread II

[ShadyOne]

Batting average is an incredibly poor indicator of offensive production. Something as simple as OPS is a much better indicator. It takes into account power and getting OBP. And in that regard, Martin is pretty darn good. As Tallica pointed out, 20 HRs is pretty impressive for a catcher. And we're unlikely to get it from most other options.

Not saying you are wrong, but you still need guys that can HIT...

Seems like we have had a ton of guys who walk, and hit HR's. But you need to balance that out with some guys that can go up there, put up good AB's, and get a simple RBI single. I'm sorry, but a guy hitting in the low .200's hurts a lineup.

Still wondering why AJ isn't a done deal. Better than average hitter, and fills a huge need..

[madhouse]

He conveniently forgot the 20 HRs as well.

I didnt not forget it. I could care less about the homeruns. my point is the Yankees had too many homeruns or nothing last year and guys that are poor hitters normally dont do well in the playoffs. you may hit .200 in the playoffs but still hit well and help your team win, maybe you hit a sac fly with no one out to send a man to 3rd with less than 2 outs. its still an out but it is a productive out. then you might hit a week .200 where your goinf for the fences every at bat so you strike out or hit that weak infield pop up and the runner stays at 2nd.. Did any one watch the Yankees last year?

[TallicaFan87]

Idk if this was mentioned but we just missed out on Schierholtz. According to Joel Sherman, he was the first position player to receive an offer from the Yankees, yet he signed with the Cubs.

Is it just me or does it seem like that good old "Yankee Mystique" that gave us a bit of an edge in attracting mediocre free agents wearing off?

The Yankee Mystique wears off pretty quick when you can't even offer 2-3M on 1 year deals.

[Rylinkus]

Not saying you are wrong, but you still need guys that can HIT...

Seems like we have had a ton of guys who walk, and hit HR's. But you need to balance that out with some guys that can go up there, put up good AB's, and get a simple RBI single. I'm sorry, but a guy hitting in the low .200's hurts a lineup.

Still wondering why AJ isn't a done deal. Better than average hitter, and fills a huge need..

I'm fine with AJ. But I think we need to stop pretending that guys with power and who draw walks suck. Granderson, Martin, Swisher, Reynold, etc.... All solid ball players. Not perfect, and flawed. But we can't assume that we can simply replace guys with anyone simply based on batting average. It's simply not a great way to build an offense. So I'm fine with replacing some low BA guys with other guys. But those other guys need to also get on base and have some power.

[madhouse]

Not saying you are wrong, but you still need guys that can HIT...

Seems like we have had a ton of guys who walk, and hit HR's. But you need to balance that out with some guys that can go up there, put up good AB's, and get a simple RBI single. I'm sorry, but a guy hitting in the low .200's hurts a lineup.

Still wondering why AJ isn't a done deal. Better than average hitter, and fills a huge need..

this I totally agree with. I think you need more of that than the guy hitting homers or nothing. I think a homer or nothing guy has a place in the lineup but I believe you cant have too many of them

[Highcheese4U]

Not saying you are wrong, but you still need guys that can HIT...

Seems like we have had a ton of guys who walk, and hit HR's. But you need to balance that out with some guys that can go up there, put up good AB's, and get a simple RBI single. I'm sorry, but a guy hitting in the low .200's hurts a lineup.

Still wondering why AJ isn't a done deal. Better than average hitter, and fills a huge need..

I agree with this. If you don't have hitters and all they do is K/HR.. you know that pain that comes with this strategy now.. you just don't win - you become a one-dimensional team that is easy to beat! It was very evident this past post season...its very hard to watch!

[YEDN90]

We're in rough shape offensively. Better hope one of Cano/Teix doesn't go down

[Rylinkus]

this I totally agree with. I think you need more of that than the guy hitting homers or nothing. I think a homer or nothing guy has a place in the lineup but I believe you cant have too many of them

Very few guys are "homer or nothing guys". Are walks nothing? What about doubles? Is Ichiro a single or nothing guy since he doesn't hit HRs. Offense is more than simply looking at hits, hrs, and Ks.

[madhouse]

I agree with this. If you don't have hitters and all they do is K/HR.. you know that pain that comes with this strategy now.. you just don't win - you become a one-dimensional team that is easy to beat! It was very evident this past post season...its very hard to watch!

most frustrated I ever was watching the Yankees and I was watching them when Maas was the best player. With guys like that they just have too many holes in there game and when a team with decent pitching really concentrates on it they take advantage of those holes. Its just a good thing the Orioles were built just like the Yankees or it might of been a round one exit

[TallicaFan87]

People also need to stop acting like we have the same lineup back from last year. We don't have a ton of all or nothing HR hitters.

The lineup is down Martin, ARod, Chavez, Swisher, possibly Ibanez. Thats 40% of the HRs from last year with no viable replacements right now.

[ShadyOne]

I'm fine with AJ. But I think we need to stop pretending that guys with power and who draw walks suck. Granderson, Martin, Swisher, Reynold, etc.... All solid ball players. Not perfect, and flawed. But we can't assume that we can simply replace guys with anyone simply based on batting average. It's simply not a great way to build an offense. So I'm fine with replacing some low BA guys with other guys. But those other guys need to also get on base and have some power.

Again, don't disagree. Never said power/OBP guys suck. Just that you need some legit average hitters around them. Otherwise, you wind up with exactly what we have had in recent years- teams that strand a lot of runners, rely on 3 run bombs, and get shut down against the good pitching in the playoffs.

Martin, well, I just don't like him. Swish I don't hate, but I hate him at the likely big money he is looking for. Grandy, I am only supporting a trade for him due to needing help in several areas, and not wanting to end up giving him the big money he is likely to command. And considering Reynolds likely comes fairly cheap, have no problems at all with him..

[Rylinkus]

People also need to stop acting like we have the same lineup back from last year. We don't have a ton of all or nothing HR hitters.

The lineup is down Martin, ARod, Chavez, Swisher, possibly Ibanez. Thats 40% of the HRs from last year with no viable replacements right now.

So you're saying we're better offensively?

[YankeeFan16]

They have missed out on great cheap options and our team looks like crap!!, we have no offense. Only cano/tex/Granderson everything else is just plain horrible. Anyone has Hal's number?, I'd like to give him a piece of my mind. Is he trying to turn us into the Astros?

[Rylinkus]

Again, don't disagree. Never said power/OBP guys suck. Just that you need some legit average hitters around them. Otherwise, you wind up with exactly what we have had in recent years- teams that strand a lot of runners, rely on 3 run bombs, and get shut down against the good pitching in the playoffs.

Martin, well, I just don't like him. Swish I don't hate, but I hate him at the likely big money he is looking for. Grandy, I am only supporting a trade for him due to needing help in several areas, and not wanting to end up giving him the big money he is likely to command.

I hate Martin. I think his defense is overrated. I'm not a huge Granderson fan. And in this market, lord knows what Swisher might get. Having said that, we're losing a ton of offense. Cano was our best offensive player. After that it's Granderson and Swisher. We've already lost Swisher and people want to trade Granderson. We do need some offense. If not, we're going to end up like the Mariners.

[madhouse]

Very few guys are "homer or nothing guys". Are walks nothing? What about doubles? Is Ichiro a single or nothing guy since he doesn't hit HRs. Offense is more than simply looking at hits, hrs, and Ks.

Ichiro makes things happen. he get good at bats . he is a tough out.

a guy like Martin is not a tough out. thats the bottom line.

If Ichiro kept to his game and he ended up with 20 hrs he would still be a tough out but with the home runs.

Bernie Williams hit some homers but that guy was a tough out