Game 14 (TOR v. SAS) Nov 25: Raps Look to Escape with a Win Against Spurs

[Bob_at_york]

personally as a coach, i would put in more defensive players than their are offensive players. lowry-derozan-mcguire-bargnani-jval. 3/5 are good defensively.

bargnani and calderon cannot be on the court together either late in the game when it matters. i really do not think calderon is good down the stretch. actually he's been pretty bad, and part of that being is that late in the game the guy who handles the ball is the PG, so a lot of the times we are seeing opposing PG's just taking it to calderon.

Jose wasn't covering the Parker yesterday. He was on Danny Green in crunch time.

Putting in McGuire would have left the team with very little outside shooting. If Lowry and JVal do a pick and roll, there will be no spacing as the Ds would slack off Dom and Demar.

If we had Alan Anderson then I would understand this complaint but I am unsure what else the coach can do to get his team late buckets. He needs some shooting out there.

[Eagles4Lyfe]

I thought most of it was sarcastic. You claimed that Ed was a better shooter and was more fluid in the offence. I also thought you were joking about Ed having more vertical than Amir. Amir has always looked like he has more hops than Ed.

I am not sure about the IQ part either although Amir is known for making bone-headed plays on D and being forced to foul.

Don't get me wrong, I like the improvements I have seen in Ed and prefer him to get more playing time than Amir but I think you are kidding yourself with some of the things you said about Ed. They might be true in the future but not right now.

I don't have access to that advanced stats site that you showed me one day but just by going of what I see from the games, Amir probably attempts more shots out of the paint area but ED probably makes his more than Amir does.
Ed is more fluid, he stays within the offense, never forces shots or takes shots that are out of his range and he has no proven track record of making. How many times do we see Amir take that long range shot when he could reset the offense or kick it out and let actual shooters shoot. Just because your open doesn't mean you have to shoot all the time, when it's out of your range.

From the middle of last season to so far this year, ED has really improved his shot mechanics, tries some post ups and even produces of offensive boards.

Ed is more vertical, he just doesn't show it consistantly but he gets up there for blocks, your probably thinking Amir has a better verticle because you see more Alley-oop dunks by him but that's because ED rarely is given a chance to do PnR's with Jose.
That was what Ed Davis was known for in college and why he was hyped up to be a top 3 pick if not for his injury, because of his shot blocking prowess and so far it seems to be holding true some what but the dude rarely gets burn.

In his prime, Ed can easily be a 15-10 player with an average about 2 blocks per game and less than a steal per game.

TBH I wouldn't mind keeping both, let Amir be a backup C to Jonas but his cap is to killer.

Speaking about the two-PG thing. What would you have done as the coach?

I wouldn't put Calderon in, I would put Kleiza why we keep putting Calderon over him baffles my mind. Kleiza can stretch the floor just like Calderon, but he can post up and play way better defense. There is no need to ever have a 2 PG system out unless one is a lights out shooter who isn't horribly defensively like the Clippers do when they have CP3 n Billups as their back court.

Calderon is not a SG and should never be used as a SG, its just dumb. Not to mention he's screwed us over on 3 in bounds plays in crunch time, which is inexcusable especially for a player who has been in the league for as long as he has.

Our crunch time lineup should be some combo of
Lowry-Derozan-Ross/Kleiza/McGuire-Bargs/Davis-Jonas/Amir

[Bob_at_york]

I don't have access to that advanced stats site that you showed me one day but just by going of what I see from the games, Amir probably attempts more shots out of the paint area but ED probably makes his more than Amir does.

According to stats I just found, Amir is 4-19 from the "mid-range" area and Ed is 3-11. Neither is very good and I believe that Amir is taking those shots from a deeper distance but I have no proof.

Ed is more fluid, he stays within the offense, never forces shots or takes shots that are out of his range and he has no proven track record of making. How many times do we see Amir take that long range shot when he could reset the offense or kick it out and let actual shooters shoot. Just because your open doesn't mean you have to shoot all the time, when it's out of your range.

That isn't how I would use the term "fluid" when it comes to offense but I agree with you, Amir takes more ill-advised shots. When I was thinking about fluidity... I was thinking about how Ed can look mechanically in his movements.

From the middle of last season to so far this year, ED has really improved his shot mechanics, tries some post ups and even produces of offensive boards.

No disagreement here. I like his improvements.

Ed is more vertical, he just doesn't show it consistantly but he gets up there for blocks, your probably thinking Amir has a better verticle because you see more Alley-oop dunks by him but that's because ED rarely is given a chance to do PnR's with Jose.
That was what Ed Davis was known for in college and why he was hyped up to be a top 3 pick if not for his injury, because of his shot blocking prowess and so far it seems to be holding true some what but the dude rarely gets burn.

I feel like Ed doesn't even try to get a lot of vertical, I sometimes wonder if he is worried about getting injured again. I see Amir getting up there more on the defensive end too. Maybe I am just not seeing it from Ed because he isn't getting a lot of playing time.

In his prime, Ed can easily be a 15-10 player with an average about 2 blocks per game and less than a steal per game.

TBH I wouldn't mind keeping both, let Amir be a backup C to Jonas but his cap is to killer.

No disagreement on Ed's prime, but I disagree about Amir's contract, I think it is fine from a cap standpoint.

I wouldn't put Calderon in, I would put Kleiza why we keep putting Calderon over him baffles my mind. Kleiza can stretch the floor just like Calderon, but he can post up and play way better defense. There is no need to ever have a 2 PG system out unless one is a lights out shooter who isn't horribly defensively like the Clippers do when they have CP3 n Billups as their back court.

I will admit, I forgot completely about Kleiza. That isn't a bad idea.

[Eagles4Lyfe]

Fair enough Bob and I forgot about AA too, either way you get the gist.

Remember that year we have Bosh and made playoffs.

Calderon-Parker-Moon-Bosh-Bargs

Moon never stretched the floor and there is no difference on range between him and McGuire. But hey were here on a forum and DC is getting paid millions trying to figure this out.

We also had a time where we played Antoine Wright at SF during crunch time to, those days weren't bad.

[Bob_at_york]

Fair enough Bob and I forgot about AA too, either way you get the gist.

Remember that year we have Bosh and made playoffs.

Calderon-Parker-Moon-Bosh-Bargs

Moon never stretched the floor and there is no difference on range between him and McGuire. But hey were here on a forum and DC is getting paid millions trying to figure this out.

Moon didn't have to, he had parker, jose and bargs. Those three would stretch the floor and give Bosh room to operate. Putting McGuire in beside DeMar means that we have two wings that can't hit a 3-pointer in crunch time.

[Eagles4Lyfe]

Well to be fair Demar has been better in that aspect, but in crunch time he's usually the one with the ball anyways posting up. But I get what your trying to say, I just think that stretching the floor thing is a tad bit overrated at times.

[Bob_at_york]

Well to be fair Demar has been better in that aspect, but in crunch time he's usually the one with the ball anyways posting up. But I get what your trying to say, I just think that stretching the floor thing is a tad bit overrated at times.

well we are going to disagree on that one. The spurs did it so well yesterday. They had Manu, Neal and Green in the corners almost all day yesterday. They put Bonner in to be a decoy up at the 3-point line.

[Freakazoid]

It's because of our management's inability to acquire a solid wing player that we even have the PG duo. It's not just Casey. Triano and Mitchell, both played around with PG duos for long periods at a time to make up for our lack of wing production.

As for Kleiza, he hasn't produced in the last 3 games, and I suspect that there are conditioning issues with him.

[psrs1]

Its hard to make a move when the team you assembled has only played 3 games together this season. We have been hit hard by a rash of injuries early in the season and people are surprised by our record? I am not by any means.

Injuries are not an excuse for losing. Many teams have significant injuries to key players and find ways to win.