Official Offseason Thread #2

[dannybfast24]

While you guys are all discussing who we should trade for to be our LF to start the year, Evan Gattis is destroying winterball. He just hit his 15th HR last night, setting the franchise record for both HR and RBIs for the team he's playing for. DOB stated that winterball is on par with AA or AAA, talent wise.

I think we should give this guy a chance. He wont cost you millions nor prospects. Trading Delgado may not seem such a good idea when we're looking to trade for another 4th starter at the deadline due to injuries.

I'm on team Gattis, who is with me?

fw had said earlier that he wished there was a better free agent class. Like i said before, wouldnt be shocked to see a gattis, francisco or js platoon, hoping someone gets the job done. If they get to the trading deadline, someone could come available. Just one guys opinion, he could trade for someone tommorow

[ATL#22]

Question, would we have been better off signing Swisher to a 4 year 56 million deal (14 AAV) and Pagan 4 year 40 million (10 AAV) or BJ Upton to a 5 year 75 (15 AAV) and crunching to finding a LF for 12 million?

[Fly]

Question, would we have been better off signing Swisher to a 4 year 56 million deal (14 AAV) and Pagan 4 year 40 million (10 AAV) or BJ Upton to a 5 year 75 (15 AAV) and crunching to finding a LF for 12 million?

I probably would have preferred the first option, but it was probably impossible to do that and fill other needs (bench).

[GoBraves]

We wish you had, too. Always glad to have new voices on the board. It's a good group we have here. I will say that I'm not sure Revere would have been any better than Parra. Revere can't hit either.



Ah, my mistake.



Not by me. The Diamondbacks paid almost $9 million per year for a guy who has a .758 OPS over the last three years. That's colossally bad, and were it not for his home park, I would absolutely project him to be outproduced by The Platoon.



I might be. I certainly think Gattis has the potential, and he has quickly become one of my favorite players in the Braves system (what's not to like?). But I would caution you about getting so excited over winter ball stats. O'Brien is right that there are lots of AA and AAA players down in the VWL, but the competition is highly variable. Umpires aren't that reliable, guys are working on things and not playing 100%, etc.

For reference, the two guys in the VWL ahead of Gattis in OPS are Luis Jimenez, a 30-year-old DH who wandered through seven minor-league organizations plus a stint in Japan before finally getting a cup of coffee with a horrible Seattle team in 2012, and Carlos Maldonado, a 33-year-old catcher who posted a whopping .696 OPS for the Nationals' Triple-A affiliate last season. In 2011, the league-leader in OPS was Gregor Blanco, who followed up his .998 VWL OPS with a .676 performance in the majors.

So don't get me wrong: I'm excited about Gattis, and if he keeps hitting in spring training, I'm all for giving him a job. Or better yet, keeping him as the backup catcher while McCann is out and letting him take as much playing time as he can earn. But I do think he has more to prove. He is a big part of the reason I'm comfortable not making a move, but I don't think his presence is enough of a reason to not make a good move if there's one to be made. With the decreasing likelihood of a good move being available, though, there's nothing wrong with hoping Gattis hits his way into a job.

While this is discouraging regarding Gattis's success in the winterball, I'm equally encouraged by his 2012 minor league numbers which were equally impressive. .305/.389/.607/.995 18HR in 272AB between A and AA while maintaining 15% strikeout rate. He is backing these numbers up in winterball with similar numbers. Thats impressive! He would certainly hit over 30HR had he not missed 2 months of the season. My concern with him is his defense.

Has anyone seen Gattis play LF?

At this point we can only judge him by his minor league numbers and winter league numbers as we do with any other prospect.

[Jon93405]

Question, would we have been better off signing Swisher to a 4 year 56 million deal (14 AAV) and Pagan 4 year 40 million (10 AAV) or BJ Upton to a 5 year 75 (15 AAV) and crunching to finding a LF for 12 million?

I'd actually like to see the Braves keep a spare $9-12 million of payroll flexibility to start the season. At the trade deadline, the teams able to take on payroll have the advantage and have to give up less in terms of prospects. If Juan Francisco is playing fairly well, he could be a big trade chip for soon to be free agents like Beltran, Hart, Pence, Morse etc. if any of their respective teams have fallen out of contention.

Or if Francisco is hitting .280/.350/.500... there's no need to make a move. Same things if Gattis tears it up in AAA April/May, gets promoted and shows he's a legitimate premium prospect.

I'd rather go with what we have now, and be able to fill our holes in July than hit our payroll limit this offseason and hope no holes develop.

[Jon93405]

I was just looking at next year's offseason... the Braves could possibly have a lot of draft picks in the 2014 draft. Prado, McCann, Hudson and Maholm are all guys who could be given qualifying offers and leave via free agency. They'd all have to have good seasons, and I honestly think Hudson would be happy with a 1 year deal to stay in Atlanta and accept it, but just something interesting that could develop 10 months from now.

[BRAVE KID]

I think it will come down to his performance in ST. If he knocks the cover off the ball, he'll get a shot.

Similar to Jordan Schafer a few years back. It was a competition for the CF coming into spring training and throughout it but when Schafer went off...they gave it to Schafer.

[iamaj]

Welcome to the board

Have to disagree a little with what is being said here. Lets compare the two (platoon vs parra)

Platoon projected over 650 AB based on last 3 seasons

.272/.315/.473/.788 47 2B 3 3B 26 HR 100 RBI

Parra over the last three seasons

.276/.335/.399/.734 32 2B 9 3B 10 HR 60 RBI

So just looking at the numbers in a vacuum, shows that adding Parra in place of our platoon actually makes us worse. Then take into account that hes in a very hitter friendly park in Arizona and look at his road splits

Home

.298 .360 .446 .806

Away

.257 .313 .356 .669

So we can bank on his numbers being lower than the ones presented above, and then you want to give them Delgado to do this?

I know that some are afraid of the "Platoon" and want an everyday guy in there and thats fine, but only if the everyday guy brings us more value. Giving up Delgado for Parra would be a horrible move IMHO.

The platoon's SLG would have been second on the team last season.

[mickmurph37]

at this point i dont think any moves will happpen till next year

[Fly]

^ I just don't want to do the platoon unless we absolutely have to.

[NBA_Starter]

at this point i dont think any moves will happpen till next year

Sadly, I feel the same.

[iamaj]

The proposed platoon's numbers would place it in the upper 1/3 of 3Bs and the top half of LFs. It would be difficult and expensive to do significantly better (and if the move wouldn't leave the Braves significantly better, why make it?).

[Wrench]

At this point I'm fine going into the season with it. Seems the guys we wanted to trade for either where traded or are off the market right now.

Go into the season with the extra money and if the platoon doesn't work at all, look to get someone mid season.

[rtgthree]

Question, would we have been better off signing Swisher to a 4 year 56 million deal (14 AAV) and Pagan 4 year 40 million (10 AAV) or BJ Upton to a 5 year 75 (15 AAV) and crunching to finding a LF for 12 million?

You have to remember that to get those players to agree to those deals, you have to outbid the teams, not just match the offers, unless you're assuming that those players would have preferred the Braves. Since Pagan was a lock to go back to San Francisco from the start, and Swisher is from the general Cleveland area, I'd say that's a poor assumption. So if you take it up to $15 million a year for Swisher and $11-12 million per for Pagan, it becomes impossible given the Braves' payroll, and still probably not as desirable as Upton's upside plus plenty of payroll flexibility.

While this is discouraging regarding Gattis's success in the winterball, I'm equally encouraged by his 2012 minor league numbers which were equally impressive. .305/.389/.607/.995 18HR in 272AB between A and AA while maintaining 15% strikeout rate. He is backing these numbers up in winterball with similar numbers. Thats impressive! He would certainly hit over 30HR had he not missed 2 months of the season. My concern with him is his defense.

Has anyone seen Gattis play LF?

At this point we can only judge him by his minor league numbers and winter league numbers as we do with any other prospect.

His numbers were impressive, no doubt. But he was still a 26-year-old beating up on younger competition. So again...I'm a believer, I think he's going to be good, and I can't wait to see him in the bigs. But he still has a lot to prove before he just gets handed a big-league job, in my opinion. As for his defense, I don't think he's ever going to be a good defender given his size and build. But reports are that he handles himself just fine and that his work ethic and solid athleticism make him a tolerable left fielder. And if his bat lives up to its promise, it really won't matter.

I'd rather go with what we have now, and be able to fill our holes in July than hit our payroll limit this offseason and hope no holes develop.

Agreed, in general. I think they need to keep looking for a big move if there's one to be found, but making a mediocre move just to make one would be silly, in my opinion, for many of the reasons you listed.

^ I just don't want to do the platoon unless we absolutely have to.

Why? There are plenty of people here who seem to be against platoons just because they think "platoon" is a bad word. Sometimes it's extremely efficient and smart to use two players and take advantage of their individual strengths. Again, I don't see how you can be upset about a player with a .786 OPS and 3 WAR. If it was one guy named Juaneed Johnsisco, with those numbers, I don't think there'd be nearly as much backlash.

The proposed platoon's numbers would place it in the upper 1/3 of 3Bs and the top half of LFs. It would be difficult and expensive to do significantly better (and if the move wouldn't leave the Braves significantly better, why make it?).

This. This times 100.