Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 33 of 67 FirstFirst ... 23313233343543 ... LastLast
Results 481 to 495 of 1004
  1. #481
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    atlanta
    Posts
    3,994
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo95 View Post
    What does the rest of that 2010 lineup have to do with anything though? My point is, Prado was a consistent, productive leadoff hitter that season. That was his job, he did it well. Others believe Simmons has the ability to do the same thing. So that's two candidates already on the roster.

    If the talent gap between the 2010 and 2012 teams matters that much, I guess you'll be surprised to know the "vastly less talented" 2010 Braves ranked 12th overall in Batting AVG with RISP, 4th in On Base %, and 13th in Runs. What they lacked was some thunder in the heart of the order.

    This year's team was bottom-half of the majors in many key offensive categories. The results, specifically in terms of driving in runs, have not been there. It came to a head in the play-in game; the Cards drove in runs with ease when they got 'em on, while the Braves' hitters looked helpless in those situations. I am not concerned with the leadoff spot because we already have players who fit the description. The focus should on the problem of runners left on base because I already know they can get on at a decent rate.
    Your doing nothing but proving my point. Now we have a plethora of home run hitters, we need someone who can set the tone at the top of the order, whether its Prado, Simmons, or someone else we acquire. The argument isn't whether Prado or Simmons could do it, but it's whether we need someone who can do it that doesn't need a lot of power. You clearly stated that we don't need another zero power, slapstick leadoff man like Bourn. I said that we don't need power from the leadoff to be successful. Prado did it successfully in 2010, and the numbers show, as you pointed out that we ranked 12th in RISP, 4th in obp, and 13th in runs. Why? Because we had a CONSISTENT leadoff man. Which is what we need. As some of us pointed out, Bonifacio is versatile and productive enough to do it. It helps that he can swipe 50+ bags as well. Thats my candidate for LF/Leadoff.
    Last edited by westside; 12-07-2012 at 07:22 PM.
    <span style=font-family: Georgia>[II][/I]</span>

  2. #482
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Kris Medlen's Bed
    Posts
    10,033
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by westside View Post
    They got that in BJ Upton. So that ship has sailed. Unless we pry willingham away to play LF, but that's not likely.
    I know but they seem to be looking for speed first guys and we just need someone with a high OBP.


    The Cult of Gattis

  3. #483
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    14,219
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by westside
    Your doing nothing but proving my point. Now we have a plethora of home run hitters, we need someone who can set the tone at the top of the order, whether its Prado, Simmons, or someone else we acquire. The argument isn't whether Prado or Simmons could do it, but it's whether we need someone who can do it that doesn't need a lot of power. You clearly stated that we don't need another zero power, slapstick leadoff man like Bourn. I said that we don't need power from the leadoff to be successful. Prado did it successfully in 2010, and the numbers show, as you pointed out that we ranked 12th in RISP, 4th in obp, and 13th in runs. Why? Because we had a CONSISTENT leadoff man. Which is what we need. As some of us pointed out, Bonifacio is versatile and productive enough to do it. It helps that he can swipe 50+ bags as well. Thats my candidate for LF/Leadoff.
    It seems whether Prado can be a consistent leadoff hitter IS the argument, because otherwise, people wouldn't be obsessed with acquiring someone ELSE who can lead off. Prado has done it before with success, he's right under your nose yet you're looking elsewhere.

    Example: Bat Prado first, then Simmons second (or someone with more power at the #2 spot like Heyward or Upton or whomever) and then slot the rest of the lineup from there.

    My point about Bourn/slap hitters is the Braves already have guys with little power who can leadoff (Prado, for example), so they don't need any ADDITIONAL ones. What they need to do is focus on adding another player who can consistently drive in runs, hence the laughable Team Batting AVG with RISP provided by the "plethora of homerun hitters" from last season. BJ Upton, while good, is not enough, because as the Braves' 2012 numbers show, this team has a LONG way to go when it comes to capitalizing with runners on.
    Last edited by Bravo95; 12-07-2012 at 09:55 PM.

  4. #484
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Coral Springs Florida
    Posts
    12,409
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo95 View Post
    It seems whether Prado can be a consistent leadoff hitter IS the argument, because otherwise, people wouldn't be obsessed with acquiring someone ELSE who can lead off. Prado has done it before with success, he's right under your nose yet you're looking elsewhere.

    Example: Bat Prado first, then Simmons second (or someone with more power at the #2 spot like Heyward or Upton or whomever) and then slot the rest of the lineup from there.

    My point about Bourn/slap hitters is the Braves already have guys with little power who can leadoff (Prado, for example), so they don't need any ADDITIONAL ones. What they need to do is focus on adding another player who can consistently drive in runs, hence the laughable Team Batting AVG with RISP provided by the "plethora of homerun hitters" from last season. BJ Upton, while good, is not enough, because as the Braves' 2012 numbers show, this team has a LONG way to go when it comes to capitalizing with runners on.
    I actually agree with this post.. Im guessing the speed dimension is what we are looking for as well.

  5. #485
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    atlanta
    Posts
    3,994
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo95 View Post
    It seems whether Prado can be a consistent leadoff hitter IS the argument, because otherwise, people wouldn't be obsessed with acquiring someone ELSE who can lead off. Prado has done it before with success, he's right under your nose yet you're looking elsewhere.

    Example: Bat Prado first, then Simmons second (or someone with more power at the #2 spot like Heyward or Upton or whomever) and then slot the rest of the lineup from there.

    My point about Bourn/slap hitters is the Braves already have guys with little power who can leadoff (Prado, for example), so they don't need any ADDITIONAL ones. What they need to do is focus on adding another player who can consistently drive in runs, hence the laughable Team Batting AVG with RISP provided by the "plethora of homerun hitters" from last season. BJ Upton, while good, is not enough, because as the Braves' 2012 numbers show, this team has a LONG way to go when it comes to capitalizing with runners on.
    What we're saying is, Prado is the 2 hitter. While he can leadoff, its not what the braves want. Simmons can also leadoff, but we cant assume anything yet. Those two should only be used unless we get a LF who doesnt leadoff. What we're doing is looking at players who play LF but can also bat leadoff. If we dont get a lf/leadoff man, then fine let simmons or prado do it and call it a wrap. Otherwise we're just speculating players who we'd like in LF that can also bat 1st.
    <span style=font-family: Georgia>[II][/I]</span>

  6. #486
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    nowhere
    Posts
    6,881
    vCash
    1500
    to be honest, we have 1 decent lead-off hitter. simba won't tear it up as he did for less than 25% of the season. if we hit prado at 1, we have a huge question mark at 2 before getting to the meat of our line-up. then we have a potentially iffy catcher (can't count on laird to hit consistently and when bmac returns, he's a question mark) and uggla and pitcher's spot. the best thing to do is get one more OBP guy because only until mccann comes and only if he's more like he was 3 years ago will we have a scary line-up. if your 7-9 guys are a bad hitting catcher, a failing power only guy, and pitcher, we won't live with a hr only at the #1. with our question marks... take the safer and cheaper route with bonifacio.

    we struck out enough last year and will strike out plenty again this year. the absolute last thing we need is a another 30 hr/ high k hitter. we need a kid with a very bright future or high obp, hands down. we shouldn't even have a convo with db's about justin, anyway. not what we need. and we sure as hell shouldn't give them 2 starters for him.
    Last edited by chipurmunki; 12-08-2012 at 01:47 PM.
    HAWKS 13 PREMIERS



    "We're under a level-5 quarantine, so I'm just gonna have to stripsearch you girls!"
    -Portman

  7. #487
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Henderson, NV
    Posts
    6,503
    vCash
    1500
    A theme I've seen on the board is that "the Braves have to get better to compete with the best in the NL." The Braves were only 4 games behind the team with the best record in baseball. Last season seemed to be more about bad luck with the new playoff format and a team in the division playing almost optimum baseball. It sucks, but there shouldn't be too much desperation.

    It should be another close battle between the Braves and the Nats considering the Braves allowed 6 more runs for the whole season and scored 31 fewer. I don't think the Nats win over 95 again this season.

  8. #488
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    14,219
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by westside
    Prado is the 2 hitter. While he can leadoff, its not what the braves want.
    And that's why they are misguided, and I don't understand why Braves fans have suddenly bought in with what the front office wants, according to beat writers. I get that some folks in here will go along with whatever Wren and Co. say, but this regime has no recent playoff success to fall back on -- the Braves have not been out of the first round since 2001 and the tradition of getting eliminated on their homefield has continued the last handful of seasons -- so I don't get why it's so difficult for them to question an organization that in many ways has become a laughing stock for its mistakes and blown opportunities.

    Let me throw some names at you:

    Derek Jeter and Ian Kinsler -- leadoff hitters for arguably the top two offenses in baseball over the last few years, both made it to the World Series in that role and neither player is a prototypical leadoff guy in the traditional sense. Jeter specifically spent much of his career batting second for a great offensive club, still gets it done batting first.

    The Cards' offense has been pretty good, correct? Jon Jay hit leadoff a number of times for them, including against us in the play-in game, he's not a traditional leadoff hitter. They reached the NLCS, after having won it all the previous season.

    The Brewers had a good offense for years with Rickie Weeks and Corey Hart as their leadoff hitters. Weeks wasn't much of a stolen base threat, only had 20+ steals once in his career, and Hart certainly isn't the prototypical guy, and they recently made it to the NLCS. The Nats had a better offense than the Braves in 2012. Jayson Werth was their leadoff hitter, and when he was hurt, it was Steve Lombardozzi.

    All of these situations where good offensive clubs went with a non-traditional leadoff guy, and had enough sense to beef up the rest of their lineup. You want speed? We got Upton. I used to believe speed was everything at the top of the lineup, but all that is really required is to get on base and be a smart baserunner, Prado (and others) can do that. I have always wanted a more aggressive team on the bases, that shouldn't fall on just one or two guys stealing bases while everyone else plays station to station -- it's an approach that the entire team needs to have, and the manager has to have that aggressive mentality. Other organizations have found success that way, both in the regular season AND playoffs.
    Quote Originally Posted by chipurmunki
    the absolute last thing we need is a another 30 hr/ high k hitter.
    Who said it had to be "another 30 hr/ high k hitter"?
    Quote Originally Posted by iamaj
    Last season seemed to be more about bad luck with the new playoff format and a team in the division playing almost optimum baseball.
    Are Braves fans gonna continue blaming that chokejob on the format (and the infield fly rule)? The same format that 3 other teams had to deal with? Even though the Braves were on their home field. And had their best pitcher on the mound. Eventually, fans have to quit making excuses for a team that continues to beat themselves when the competition gets tougher. No "bad luck" involved, all 30 teams knew the consequences of not winning their division from the beginning, and the Braves wouldn't have been in that situation had they not stuck with guys like Pastornicky and Jurrjens when they were obviously costing this team early wins, two bad decisions that came back to haunt them.
    Last edited by Bravo95; 12-08-2012 at 11:32 AM.

  9. #489
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Henderson, NV
    Posts
    6,503
    vCash
    1500
    How is a 1 game playoff justifiable when one team is 6 games better than the other? Under the old format, the Braves would have gone to Cincinnati. They could have won that series.

    Also, the Braves gained 5 wins over 2011. They got better, and that was with Hanson struggling, Jurrjens getting 10 starts, McCann hurt, Uggla's power loss and only 50 games of Simmons. I'm not saying they shouldn't try to improve, but it is not as if they were some 81-81 club that just can't get it together.

  10. #490
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    St. Simon's Island
    Posts
    6,774
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by iamaj View Post
    How is a 1 game playoff justifiable when one team is 6 games better than the other? Under the old format, the Braves would have gone to Cincinnati. They could have won that series.

    Also, the Braves gained 5 wins over 2011. They got better, and that was with Hanson struggling, Jurrjens getting 10 starts, McCann hurt, Uggla's power loss and only 50 games of Simmons. I'm not saying they shouldn't try to improve, but it is not as if they were some 81-81 club that just can't get it together.
    Just like we could have won the 1-game playoff.

  11. #491
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    In the gym
    Posts
    2,340
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by iamaj View Post
    A theme I've seen on the board is that "the Braves have to get better to compete with the best in the NL." The Braves were only 4 games behind the team with the best record in baseball. Last season seemed to be more about bad luck with the new playoff format and a team in the division playing almost optimum baseball. It sucks, but there shouldn't be too much desperation.

    It should be another close battle between the Braves and the Nats considering the Braves allowed 6 more runs for the whole season and scored 31 fewer. I don't think the Nats win over 95 again this season.
    We can't forget about the Phillies. They got back on track during second half of the season and were close to catching up with the Braves than earlier in the season...

  12. #492
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    atlanta
    Posts
    3,994
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by iamaj View Post
    how is a 1 game playoff justifiable when one team is 6 games better than the other? Under the old format, the braves would have gone to cincinnati. They could have won that series.

    Also, the braves gained 5 wins over 2011. They got better, and that was with hanson struggling, jurrjens getting 10 starts, mccann hurt, uggla's power loss and only 50 games of simmons. I'm not saying they shouldn't try to improve, but it is not as if they were some 81-81 club that just can't get it together.
    +1
    <span style=font-family: Georgia>[II][/I]</span>

  13. #493
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Steubenville/Alliance, Ohio
    Posts
    6,511
    vCash
    1500
    Alejandro De Aza would be a nice pick up. What would it take to get him?


    I cant wait to stand on the podium with Zygi and Mark and Jonathan, and were standing on the podium, and we look up and the confetti is falling down on top of us, and were all hand in hand, and Commissioner Goodell comes over and hands the Super Bowl trophy to Mr. Wilf and tells him hes world champion, that is my goal and that is my drive.
    - Mike Zimmer

  14. #494
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    atlanta
    Posts
    3,994
    vCash
    1500
    Really, all we need is another decent obp guy with speed so we can manufacture runs. We cant assume anything with anybody this season. We should just get someone we know can steal bags and leadoff pretty good. a 94 win team doesn't need to start re-arranging everybody. We could still get good production with everybody coming back and a few additions. Freeman,Heyward,Simmons, and Prado will be the catalyst for this team. All we're missing is someone who can keep prado in the 2 hole. A lineup that has good players 1-8 is better than one that is top heavy with easy outs at the back.

    Bonifacio
    Prado
    Heyward
    Freeman
    Upton
    McCann
    Uggla
    Simmons

    Not opening Day of course, but that is a pretty good lineup IF everybody can do what they do. A fast, young, run producing lineup.Either way you're going to have 2 LH's back to back, or 2 RH's back to back. Im done, but this is what i want to see.
    <span style=font-family: Georgia>[II][/I]</span>

  15. #495
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    atlanta
    Posts
    3,994
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    Alejandro De Aza would be a nice pick up. What would it take to get him?
    Not much I'd assume. He is similar to Span in a way. I think we can do better,but if nothing else he'd be ok.
    Last edited by westside; 12-08-2012 at 11:55 AM.
    <span style=font-family: Georgia>[II][/I]</span>

Page 33 of 67 FirstFirst ... 23313233343543 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •