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  1. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcslugger33
    Guess we need to get Coco Crisp then. he hit .367 with RISP. Problem solved.
    Looks like we could have used Crisp last season. Get mad all you want, I didn't make up those atrocious numbers. Bottom line: They have a middle of the pack offense because our regulars struggle to drive in runners. Those 12 left on base in the play-in game are a big reason why they choked away yet another winnable matchup at Turner Field, and it was a problem throughout the season. If any of you still want to place your hopes on Uggla and McCann bouncing back, well have fun with that.

  2. #467
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    Team stats.
    Pre All-Star 391 runs .259/.324/.408 .732 ops

    Post All-Star ..309 runs .234/.315 /.368 .683 ops

    As you can see, we weren't consistent in our run production, getting on base, and hitting. Just for kicks, lets look at how the lead off position affected that as well.

    Michael Bourn 1st half .311/.366/.451 .817 ops
    2nd half .225/.325/.311 .636 ops
    Coincidence? Dont think so.
    Last edited by westside; 12-07-2012 at 04:39 PM.
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  3. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo95 View Post
    Looks like we could have used Crisp last season. Get mad all you want, I didn't make up those atrocious numbers. Bottom line: They have a middle of the pack offense because our regulars struggle to drive in runners. Those 12 left on base in the play-in game are a big reason why they choked away yet another winnable matchup at Turner Field, and it was a problem throughout the season. If any of you still want to place your hopes on Uggla and McCann bouncing back, well have fun with that.

    Thats what people were saying about Heyward, but he and Prado were the most consistent on the team. Mac had one bad year, that was due to injury. He'll be ok. Uggla is a 50/50, we'll just have to see.
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  4. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by westside
    The problem is, when you say we need power, that is essentially home runs. Doubles, and triples aren't really power based because a speedster, or gap hitter can get those all day. Our problem was inconsistency with RISP. That doesn't mean we need more power, it just means we were too aggressive and free swinging with scoring opportunities. Look at the 1st half of last season compared to the 2nd. We had a very good leadoff, slapstick hitter in bourn. Notice how we drastically fell off in the 2nd half, in terms of runs scored? Thats what we need to have, consistency.
    Obviously Bourn's second half slump hurt, but after the All Star Break the team as a whole was 28th in Batting Average and 28th in Slugging %, so it clearly wasn't all on him.
    Last edited by Bravo95; 12-07-2012 at 04:43 PM.

  5. #470
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    Going to agree with westside. You compare our lineup to the giants last year and no way in hell do I believe they have the better lineup in terms of talent. How do the Giants win? Like they are known for....Pitching and hitting with RISP/timely hitting.

    We are not a smart/disciplined team with it comes to hitting with RISP. Does it help to get a known bopper to bail us out with an XBH or a homer in those situations? Of course. But we just have to have, as Wren would say it, "tougher and smarter at-bats."

    How many times have we thrown away at-bats with RISP over the years? Talent does help in this area but I believe mentality plays a big factor in it as well.


  6. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo95 View Post
    Obviously Bourn's second half slump hurt, but after the All Star Break the team as a whole was 28th in Batting Average and 28th in Slugging %, so it clearly wasn't all on him.

    Oh but of course. But I'm saying the importance of a leadoff hitter who can hit and get on base consistently is what we need. I agree i would like to see more 2 and 3-run homers/XBH and less GIDP, but we need a consistent table setter. Bourn before the all-star break set the tone for us and we were top 5 in runs scored. When he fell flat, so did we because we had to manufacture runs out of nowhere, which was tough for a team like ours. I see your point very well, but i think a consistent leadoff threat is more important and will carry us like it did for the 1st half last season.
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  7. #472
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    This feels eeeeerily similar to those Simmons-vs-Pastornicky debates, when a numbers posters didn't think it was a big deal to have Tyler start the season out there. Doing enough just to get by, instead of going with the actual impact player, because the other guys around him would make up the difference. Guess we'll have to go through this again, ha.

  8. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by westside
    but we need a consistent table setter.
    Once again: Prado was the primary leadoff hitter in 2010 (hit .307 with an .809 OPS that year), and others including Wren himself have made the case for Simmons being the guy if necessary.

  9. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by westside View Post
    Team stats.
    Pre All-Star 391 runs .259/.324/.408 .732 ops

    Post All-Star ..309 runs .234/.315 /.368 .683 ops

    As you can see, we weren't consistent in our run production, getting on base, and hitting. Just for kicks, lets look at how the lead off position affected that as well.

    Michael Bourn 1st half .311/.366/.451 .817 ops
    2nd half .225/.325/.311 .636 ops
    Coincidence? Dont think so.
    Good comparison...

    I think Alex Gordon would be ideal leadoff hitter for us. The guy not only gets on base but has speed, not to mention plenty of extra base hits, mainly doubles....

  10. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo95 View Post
    Once again: Prado was the primary leadoff hitter in 2010 (hit .307 with an .809 OPS that year), and others including Wren himself have made the case for Simmons being the guy if necessary.
    If we got someone like Swisher, I would be good with Prado leading off...

  11. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo95 View Post
    Once again: Prado was the primary leadoff hitter in 2010 (hit .307 with an .809 OPS that year), and others including Wren himself have made the case for Simmons being the guy if necessary.
    But that same lineup consisted of, at times, Troy Glaus, Alex Gonzalez, Nate Mclouth, Derreck Lee, Rick Ankiel, and Melky Cabrera(the bad version).

    As you can see we are vastly more talented with Prado,Uggla,,Freeman,Heyward,Simmons, and McCann. Not the same type of lineup.

    Prado is a perfect 2 hole hitter, and J-hey is a perfect 3 hole hitter. Freeman is what you look for in a clean-up hitter as well, power,good obp, decent average. So we are younger and much more talented than 2010. The difference is if we had a consistent, productive leadoff man, then you have prado,heyward,freeman,upton ..etc to protect him. Versus 2010 when prado only had Heyward as protection. Chipper was hurt off and on so im excluding him.
    Last edited by westside; 12-07-2012 at 05:50 PM.
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  12. #477
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    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#jhx4wT14USI6sUdg.99

    The White Sox have discussed deals involving Dayan Viciedo and Alejandro De Aza, Mark Gonzales of the Chicago Tribune reports. The White Sox and Mariners discussed a deal that would send Viciedo to Seattle. Meanwhile, the Reds and Mariners discussed a deal that would send De Aza to Cincinnati.
    I think that if the Braves were after Span we should be all over De Aza.

    Last two years average:
    Denard Span
    8.5 BB/9 11.3 K/9 .274/.335/.377 .317 wOBA 98 wRC+ Career 76 SB% Plays great defense in CF, will be 29 years old for the 2013 season.

    Alejandro De Aza
    9 BB/9 19.3 K/9 .305/.375/.465 .366 wOBA 127 wRC+ Career 70 SB% Plays average defense in CF, will be 29 years old for the 2013 season.

    De aza's numbers are inflated because in 2011 he played 54 amazing games, he probably won't be that good, but in 2012 he was a 2.7 WAR player, that's not very far away of what Span could bring to the table, in fact i think De Aza is the better hitter. De Aza has one more year of control but he has been a very good player for just 1 and a half year, meanwhile Span has been doing it for 3 and a half years, for that reason i think it could cost less to get De Aza, but the price should be similar.
    Last edited by beldugo; 12-07-2012 at 06:04 PM.

  13. #478
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    bravo, you're not going sell me that slugging=championships. the top 2 slugging nl teams? milwaukee and colorado.

    i really like de aza. i bet we've inquired about him already.
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  14. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by westside
    But that same lineup consisted of, at times, Troy Glaus, Alex Gonzalez, Nate Mclouth, Derreck Lee, Rick Ankiel, and Melky Cabrera(the bad version).

    As you can see we are vastly more talented with Prado,Uggla,,Freeman,Heyward,Simmons, and McCann. Not the same type of lineup.

    Prado is a perfect 2 hole hitter, and J-hey is a perfect 3 hole hitter. Freeman is what you look for in a clean-up hitter as well, power,good obp, decent average. So we are younger and much more talented than 2010. The difference is if we had a consistent, productive leadoff man, then you have prado,heyward,freeman,upton ..etc to protect him. Versus 2010 when prado only had Heyward as protection. Chipper was hurt off and on so im excluding him.
    What does the rest of that 2010 lineup have to do with anything though? My point is, Prado was a consistent, productive leadoff hitter that season. That was his job, he did it well. Others believe Simmons has the ability to do the same thing. So that's two candidates already on the roster.

    If the talent gap between the 2010 and 2012 teams matters that much, I guess you'll be surprised to know the "vastly less talented" 2010 Braves ranked 12th overall in Batting AVG with RISP, 4th in On Base %, and 13th in Runs. What they lacked was some thunder in the heart of the order.

    This year's team was bottom-half of the majors in many key offensive categories. The results, specifically in terms of driving in runs, have not been there. It came to a head in the play-in game; the Cards drove in runs with ease when they got 'em on, while the Braves' hitters looked helpless in those situations. I am not concerned with the leadoff spot because we already have players who fit the description. The focus should be on the problem of runners left on base because I already know they can get on at a decent rate.
    Last edited by Bravo95; 12-07-2012 at 07:16 PM.

  15. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipurmunki
    bravo, you're not going sell me that slugging=championships. the top 2 slugging nl teams? milwaukee and colorado.
    Nope, not trying to sell you that. Besides, those two teams had other issues that kept them out.

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