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View Poll Results: If you had a vote, select who you would vote for (note: max of 10 votes per person)

Voters
293. You may not vote on this poll
  • Barry Bonds

    173 59.04%
  • Roger Clemens

    149 50.85%
  • Curt Schilling

    140 47.78%
  • Craig Biggio

    181 61.77%
  • Kenny Lofton

    40 13.65%
  • Sammy Sosa

    74 25.26%
  • Mike Piazza

    222 75.77%
  • Jack Morris

    54 18.43%
  • Jeff Bagwell

    162 55.29%
  • Lee Smith

    46 15.70%
  • Tim Raines

    80 27.30%
  • Alan Trammell

    58 19.80%
  • Edgar Martinez

    112 38.23%
  • Fred McGriff

    49 16.72%
  • Larry Walker

    83 28.33%
  • Mark McGwire

    80 27.30%
  • Don Mattingly

    75 25.60%
  • Dale Murphy

    35 11.95%
  • Rafael Palmerio

    38 12.97%
  • Bernie Williams

    53 18.09%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Results 151 to 165 of 442
  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by keymax View Post
    I have nothing against Bagwell. It was always fun to compare Big Frank with him since, as you may know, they were born on the same day.

    Maybe they go in together as well
    They also share my mothers birthday :/


    Not the same year of course

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    I haven't really been following, but something I was wondering. just watching PTI and when asked, Kornheiser said he would vote for Bonds/Clemans/Sosa, but not in the first year. I don't understand this. what is going to change from this year to next year? nothing. they're done playing, their stats are what they are.
    maybe not voting them in for the first year of eligibility is a way of punishing them? just seems childish to me. numbers alone are HOF worthy. now if you feel they cheated and want to punish them, don't vote for them at all.
    I love when people make those horrible arguments.


    first ballot, first ballot!


    It means nothing. It's so stupid to 'punish' a player like that.

    Either he is a hall of famer, or he isn't.


    Babe Ruth is as much a hall of famer as Bert Blyleven.

  3. #153
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    For the 26 that voted for Jack Morris


    Does this guy belong in as well according to you?

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by keymax View Post
    Bagwell, Schilling, Raines would be on my ballot.
    I don't think Trammell is worthy, because I don't trust fielding metrics calculated for games that were played in the 80s. By the eye test he isn't a hall of famer.
    And as I already said, I would rather vote for Todd van Poppel before I'd consider Bonds et al.

    edit: forgot Piazza but whatever...
    Fielding metrics back to 1948 are quite good, and after 1972 - 100% complete. See BR, it's a more accurate means of calculating defense than UZR because its far less erratic. Even FG uses ZR before 2002, and IMO they should still use it as UZR skews the WAR of positional players too much to be trusted.

    Trammell is inside the top 8 SS's of all time, and since Santo got in, probably the single biggest oversight of any positional player still living and eligible.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Fielding metrics back to 1948 are quite good, and after 1972 - 100% complete. See BR, it's a more accurate means of calculating defense than UZR because its far less erratic. Even FG uses ZR before 2002, and IMO they should still use it as UZR skews the WAR of positional players too much to be trusted.

    Trammell is inside the top 8 SS's of all time, and since Santo got in, probably the single biggest oversight of any positional player still living and eligible.
    Whitaker should be in too

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368:24497441
    Quote Originally Posted by cubbiefan_est88 View Post
    Bagwell was steroid era who is to say he didnt juice?
    Evidence.
    I was just making a statement. You dont know who did in that era please show me evidence he didnt? Because besides what you think numbers are not evidence of steroid use. If it were true every bodybuilder on the plant would play baseball.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Whitaker should be in too
    You know if I had a buck for every time I made the case for Trammell and you came in with Whitaker, I'd have about 6 bucks. You're right.

    These two guys should replace Tinkers and Evers in that famous phrase.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by atl_braves_fan View Post
    ^^ it is not a court of law, but it is a history museum. Picking and choosing what stories you want to tell and burying other stories that clearly have historical significance is not how history should work.
    Great post.

  9. #159
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    Clemens is on the ballot...and he's still pitching...

  10. #160
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    I honestly think Bonds should get in idc that he used steroids. He was unreal.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldStyleCubbies View Post
    I honestly think Bonds should get in idc that he used steroids. He was unreal.
    Actually the step around on Bonds is that he amassed a HOF career before he obviously juiced. I used to have a collection of pics that showed him over the years. His historically bizarre age 35+ performance is another indicator that he was dirty. The recent pictures of him with a normal sized head is another.

    He should go in, but I'll hold my nose when it happens.

    Guys like Raffy, Sosa, Mac clearly were NOT HOF players before the juice. They are out.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  12. #162
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    Piazza
    Bagwell
    Biggio

  13. #163
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    This forum doesn't like the steroids argument because admitting that steroids matter renders statistics as something less than absolute, which SHOULD NEVER BE.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Haha View Post
    This forum doesn't like the steroids argument because admitting that steroids matter renders statistics as something less than absolute, which SHOULD NEVER BE.
    No.

    It's because we can't, and shouldn't be judge, jury, and executioner of something that wasn't banned from the game and was a product of the game when it happened.


    These guys were not banned, or put into trouble. Clean players were not calling them out. Everybody looked the other way.

    Now, a decade later, it's wrong, and we should punish them for suspected steroid use (on some known) and kick them out of our baseball museum.


    It has nothing to do with stats when you are talking about PEDs. It has everything to do with how the game handled it and how we are choosing to punish players for being a product of their times.


    We don't know how much it impacts their game
    We don't know how when they were taking what
    We don't know who took what, when, and how much

    So why on earth are we going to cast this judgment?

    That, and we already have users in the hall of fame.


    This museum should reflect what happened in baseball history. PED's happened. I'm not saying celebrate it. But we shouldn't punish individuals for something that happened all around them, and we don't know those three above answers.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    No.

    It's because we can't, and shouldn't be judge, jury, and executioner of something that wasn't banned from the game and was a product of the game when it happened.


    These guys were not banned, or put into trouble. Clean players were not calling them out. Everybody looked the other way.

    Now, a decade later, it's wrong, and we should punish them for suspected steroid use (on some known) and kick them out of our baseball museum.


    It has nothing to do with stats when you are talking about PEDs. It has everything to do with how the game handled it and how we are choosing to punish players for being a product of their times.


    We don't know how much it impacts their game
    We don't know how when they were taking what
    We don't know who took what, when, and how much

    So why on earth are we going to cast this judgment?

    That, and we already have users in the hall of fame.


    This museum should reflect what happened in baseball history. PED's happened. I'm not saying celebrate it. But we shouldn't punish individuals for something that happened all around them, and we don't know those three above answers.
    Because an absurd amount of players hit more HR's than we've seen in decades. Because of that, history has been blurred or even ruined. Because though in baseball did not post a rule about it, it was against the law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crucis View Post
    Parity is about equality of opportunity, not equality of results.

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