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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    I would like to hear why you think this?

    The problem I have with going after Kinsler is that he seems to be a big product of the field that he plays in. He hasn't posted a solid OPS away from Arlington since 2008, and last year his slash away from home was .220/.290/.321. He still raked at home, but just couldn't hit at all on the road.....I wouldn't mind having him, but not really a guy I would trade a starter 1 year removed from being a legit #1 for...let alone throw in our starting catcher too.

    This trade as 0 merit, and should never have found its way to print on a place like TSN.ca
    The one you stated is definitely a major problem I have with him. His career numbers at Rogers centre are terribad, and he really relies on his offense to be valuable. His 2 best years are the product of an inflated dWAR and an unusually high BABIP.

    Whenever he's had a high BA, it's been at the cost of his BB% (not by a small margin either)

    My biggest problem with him right now is last year. His BB% plummeted to it's lowest total since 2008, and despite his BABIP normalizing to his career average, he was still not very good offensively. Might just be an anomaly or it might be the sign of decline. He turns 31 in June so he's definitely not too young for that.

    I still expect a better year from him in 2013, something like a .270/.330/.435 slash. Pretty good for a 2B, but not worth it for Romero IMO

  2. #47
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    I'm not completely comfortable in dealing with Texas. They fought for a playoff spot last year, and only ended up in the wild card game. No sense in dealing with them if we want to compete ( assuming we dont win the division) unless they completely blow us away with an offer.

  3. #48
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    The only name I like in these trade talks is Martin Perez.

    Jays '13

  4. #49
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    I am comfortable trading D'Arnaud and another prospect to Texas... JPA is a young catcher with the world in front of him and room to get better.. Having Mattola as the hitting coach will only help him get better. Buck as the backup is good too.. he is awesome with pitchers, hits well in toronto and is a veteran leader.. I dunno thought I think AA is done, going to be alot of rumors in the next week or so from the winter meetings... we will have to see

  5. #50
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    Trade d'Arnaud + Oliver+ Rasmus for Ogando + Kinsler + Perez

  6. #51
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    ^^Uhh, no.
    2013

  7. #52
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    JPA + Bonifacio + Oliver for Kinsler wouldn't be too bad. Doubt they wanna give up Ogando though unless we added another real nice piece and I don't wanna give up TDA. Idk I'm just throwing out ideas cause I'm bored.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jensan View Post
    Trade d'Arnaud + Oliver+ Rasmus for Ogando + Kinsler + Perez
    I would do this trade but Texas would not ... Perez may be a better prospect than Sanchez or Syndergaard

  9. #54
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    Perhaps once Napoli and other catchers sign elsewhere Texas may be a little desperate ...

    Buck + Oliver + $2M for Perez

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggy View Post
    Perhaps once Napoli and other catchers sign elsewhere Texas may be a little desperate ...

    Buck + Oliver + $2M for Perez
    Way too little for Perez imo. JPA should be the starting point if you're going after Perez.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdnhustler View Post
    LOL at the guy who said Ian Kinsler isn't even that good...

    Please
    LOL at the guy who doesn't have a clue, yes, I'm looking at you. Kinsler posted a 2 WAR last season after playing more than he's ever played before and dropped 5 wins from the year befor. In 2011 Bonafacio had a 2.4 WAR in less games played. Kinlser is incredibly overrated, and takes advantage of a hitters haven. Ignorance on your part.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halladay View Post
    LOL at the guy who doesn't have a clue, yes, I'm looking at you. Kinsler posted a 2 WAR last season after playing more than he's ever played before and dropped 5 wins from the year befor. In 2011 Bonafacio had a 2.4 WAR in less games played. Kinlser is incredibly overrated, and takes advantage of a hitters haven. Ignorance on your part.
    I'm hoping that I read this wrong, and that you're not actually suggesting that Bonifacio is in the same league as Kinsler. I mean Kinsler has been worth at least 3 wins each year 2008 and has generally been better than that. Kinsler's season last year was nearly as value as Bonifacio's career, which speaks to how poor Bonifacio, AKA the middle infield version of Lind, has performed throughout his career.

    You may not think he's valuable, which is one thing, but he's been one of the best 2B in the league for the past several years. Between 2010-2012 he's fifth in WAR among 2B.
    Last edited by Twitchy; 11-28-2012 at 06:56 AM.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twitchy View Post
    I'm hoping that I read this wrong, and that you're not actually suggesting that Bonifacio is in the same league as Kinsler. I mean Kinsler has been worth at least 3 wins each year 2008 and has generally been better than that. Kinsler's season last year was nearly as value as Bonifacio's career, which speaks to how poor Bonifacio, AKA the middle infield version of Lind, has performed throughout his career.

    You may not think he's valuable, which is one thing, but he's been one of the best 2B in the league for the past several years. Between 2010-2012 he's fifth in WAR among 2B.
    No, I'm not suggesting that Bonafacio is as good as Kinsler, my point was that Kinslers overrated given a similar WAR last season to a bench player. This is a "what have you done for me lately" argument and I don't think its unreasonable given Kinslers reputation.

  14. #59
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    So just to be clear, you'd pass on kinsler on the basis that bonafacio had a better WAR last year? i think some people put far too much merit on saber's

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halladay View Post
    LOL at the guy who doesn't have a clue, yes, I'm looking at you. Kinsler posted a 2 WAR last season after playing more than he's ever played before and dropped 5 wins from the year befor. In 2011 Bonafacio had a 2.4 WAR in less games played. Kinlser is incredibly overrated, and takes advantage of a hitters haven. Ignorance on your part.

    Bonifacio would be one of the worst starting 2B with the bat in all of th MLB last year. Right between Beckham and Barney with his godawful .290wOBA. Not to mention his atrocious glove. Im sorry Bonifacio is no where near Kinsler and should be no where near starting 2B this year.

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